Charging while driving…Wild, irresponsible speculation...

[Chavannigans]

I’m curious about what your need would be if you went with BEV + solar.

How many days would you be out? How much additional range would you need? What part of the world would this be happening?
Would a trailer with some PV+battery be an option?

We really wanted to tow a mid sized travel trailer to BLM land in Colorado and places like Padre Island National Seashore. It takes forever to get anywhere so we usually take a week and camp for 5 days at a time to make it worth our while.

The wife and I also want to go to festivals like Bonaroo and Burning Man where you need to be self sufficient for about 5 days, and leaving and returning is a massive PITA.

Ideally with enough power to run a small RV air conditioner and campsite for several days.

There has to be a premium. $10K. I think that is high but I can easily see $4K-$6K. From the building industry side of things-you’d be amazed at how many people will pay nearly double the price of a similar product that at COST, is Pennie’s difference. It’s the idea of value and emotion.
Sure-the engine and lesser battery quantity will save money. However, when Harvester was decided it likely required way more staffing/engineering because the original plan was EV. I’m sure Scout hired experts on that side but now you add an engine and all the complexities and staffing and R&D probably grows 30% or more. That has to be paid for and since Harvester in theory offers “more” it needs to be priced more. No different that the 3- row SUV argument earlier with a larger profit margin. Can’t imagine the margins-I think it would ruin me to see it but that retail/commodity sales.

With a majority of reservations being for the Harvester, it will be fascinating to see that pricing announcement play out. I can see a lot of cancellations if its in the 5 figure price range. For people already apprehensive to go fully EV, they may be turned off completely by a 20% 16% price increase for that peace of mind.

Value is subjective, and that can certainly be a double edge sword. Alienating customers with that sort of premium may not be a savvy business move.

Whose to say Scout isnt using VW for R&D?
Are we sure its all done in house?
Do you really feel adding the Harvester to an existing platform is really that engineering intensive and warrants years of development?
What makes you think it will only be Harvester customers paying those overheads?

The battery is not only a lesser quantity, but a cheaper type of battery. LFP batteries are roughly 20%-30% cheaper per KW than NMC batteries, and if its half the size there is a considerable cost difference.

Lets say the NMC 350 mile pack costs $10,000 for arguments sake.
If the Harvester LFP battery is half the size it would could cost around $3,500.

Thats a $6,500 delta that could easily absorb a large chunk of the cost of the Harvester hardware.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

We really wanted to tow a mid sized travel trailer to BLM land in Colorado and places like Padre Island National Seashore. It takes forever to get anywhere so we usually take a week and camp for 5 days at a time to make it worth our while.

The wife and I also want to go to festivals like Bonaroo and Burning Man where you need to be self sufficient for about 5 days, and leaving and returning is a massive PITA.

Ideally with enough power to run a small RV air conditioner and campsite for several days.

We’re also boondockers who take at least a day to get to our campsite, sometimes two, so we like to camp for 3-5 days at a time to relax from the drive out before having to make the drive back. Most of our camp sites are very nearly 50% from a refueling station. Some are farther than 50%. When we had the Tacoma, we would often have to make a special, no-trailer drive back to “civilization” to refuel so we could make it home. We don’t have a trailer right now (because I hated towing it with the Tacoma and sold it just before we bought the Lightning).

Some trips we’ll stay at an established campground with RV hookups and get an overnight charge. Some trips we’ll choose to stay at a hotel for one night to get a shower (and a charge).

If we go back to a travel trailer (more likely a pop-up or other low-height trailer, I’ll add somewhere between 20 and 50 kWh of battery to the trailer so we can do the park-and-charge option described above. With the roof area of a popup trailer, I can get about 1 kW of solar. I can also add a few more panels to the truck’s rack and probably bring some to set out separately. Living and camping mostly in the US southwest means during camping season I can easily get 10-14 hours of good sunlight. A 10 hour day of good sunlight with only 1kW of panels means ~10 kWh put into the truck. That’s almost 10% of my battery. Staying for 3-5 days gives me 30-50%. More if I have more panels. The hardmounted panels will never be in the way and require minimal maintenance. I can also charge the trailer while driving so I don’t have to give up on the recharge while driving option.

However, a BEV + trailer + auxiliary battery solution could be more expensive than a Harvester + trailer, depending on how much auxiliary energy you feel you need and how DIY capable you feel. I have zero fear of DIY with this sort of thing—I grew up off-grid and have been doing solar installations for myself and others for decades. I won’t go back to gas, so my only option for trailering will be to install an auxiliary battery + inverter + L2 charger into the trailer (if we go back to trailering).

Note: A lot of people in the Lightning and Rivian forums have criss-crossed the country with their unmodified, large! (to me) travel trailers. It takes more time, a bit more planning, etc., but it’s not like it’s impossible to do these things. I just like my solution because I’m a tinkerer...

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Whose to say Scout isnt using VW for R&D?
Are we sure its all done in house?
Do you really feel adding the Harvester to an existing platform is really that engineering intensive and warrants years of development?
What makes you think it will only be Harvester customers paying those overheads?

The battery is not only a lesser quantity, but a cheaper type of battery. LFP batteries are roughly 20%-30% cheaper per KW than NMC batteries, and if its half the size there is a considerable cost difference.

Lets say the NMC 350 mile pack costs $10,000 for arguments sake.
If the Harvester LFP battery is half the size it would could cost around $3,500.

Thats a $6,500 delta that could easily absorb a large chunk of the cost of the Harvester hardware.

Yeah. I don’t know. I have zero insight into the details of what Scout Motors is actually doing. Just watching and guessing.

Also, I’m a pessimist when it comes to things I can’t map out. Since I can’t map out how they’re going to set the pricing, I’m pessimistic about it.

 

[cyure]

Yeah. I don’t know. I have zero insight into the details of what Scout Motors is actually doing. Just watching and guessing.

Also, I’m a pessimist when it comes to things I can’t map out. Since I can’t map out how they’re going to set the pricing, I’m pessimistic about it.

Come over to my side. I’m extremely optimistic. I’m my own little ray of sunshine and I don’t like putting negativity out into the universe. I just keep saying it’s going to be amazing!

 

[J Alynn]

We really wanted to tow a mid sized travel trailer to BLM land in Colorado and places like Padre Island National Seashore. It takes forever to get anywhere so we usually take a week and camp for 5 days at a time to make it worth our while.

The wife and I also want to go to festivals like Bonaroo and Burning Man where you need to be self sufficient for about 5 days, and leaving and returning is a massive PITA.

Ideally with enough power to run a small RV air conditioner and campsite for several days.



With a majority of reservations being for the Harvester, it will be fascinating to see that pricing announcement play out. I can see a lot of cancellations if its in the 5 figure price range. For people already apprehensive to go fully EV, they may be turned off completely by a 20% price increase for that peace of mind.

Value is subjective, and that can certainly be a double edge sword. Alienating customers with that sort of premium may not be a savvy business move.

Whose to say Scout isnt using VW for R&D?
Are we sure its all done in house?
Do you really feel adding the Harvester to an existing platform is really that engineering intensive and warrants years of development?
What makes you think it will only be Harvester customers paying those overheads?

The battery is not only a lesser quantity, but a cheaper type of battery. LFP batteries are roughly 20%-30% cheaper per KW than NMC batteries, and if its half the size there is a considerable cost difference.

Lets say the NMC 350 mile pack costs $10,000 for arguments sake.
If the Harvester LFP battery is half the size it would could cost around $3,500.

Thats a $6,500 delta that could easily absorb a large chunk of the cost of the Harvester hardware.

Ultimately it’s business and supply and demand. Not sure where your 20% comes in. At just under 60K that’s 10%. That is more than reasonable for a premium upgrade. People need paid for their time. Also-short of acquiring an engine from VW, SM is independent. If VW is doing the engine development, reengineering, developing SM is surely paying for that experience. If not in house VW surely isn’t absorbing that cost just so SM can use it. Sure-in that case VW gains huge advantages but they will make a buck on it for certain. Also keep in mind batteries are coming down but metals are skyrocketing right now. I’ve got steel beams I’m pricing that are double what they were 4 months ago. An engine and all its associated parts are made from a lot of metal.
Again. I think $10K is logical but I think that costs sales. I think $4-$6 k is a perfectly fine range. You are buying range, time, peace of mind. Those have intangible values. And to your point-the majority of buyers want the Harvester -ka-ching, ka-ching $$$$. Those premiums help SM become profitable that much faster and then new product development can begin.
As for paying for it, starting prices were already announced so raising the BEV prices kills the other side of the equation. As a fair range, across numerous industries it’s safe to think a 30% margin is safe if not low so I’m still gonna speculate $4-$6K. If they suddenly add solid state they need room to slot that in and I’d guess that range/cost would be a premium of $8-$10K so the harvester has to be positioned in the middle.

 

[Chavannigans]

Edit: Whoopsie

Best of luck to them if they price it at $10k.

I’m willing to pay up into the high $80s, but I would expect a steel roof with all the offroad accoutrements. Steel bumpers, sliders, 35”s, air ride, dual lockers, sway bar disconnect and harvester etc.

They will price themselves out of the market fast with people who would normally purchase a TRD Pro Sequoia, TRD Pro 4Runner, Land Cruiser, GX550, Bronco, and Pro 4X Armada if they enter Rivian territory.

They announced the pricing and Harvester at the same time right? So they would have priced that cost in already.

 

[J Alynn]

Edit: Whoopsie

Best of luck to them if they price it at $10k.

I’m willing to pay up into the high $80s, but I would expect a steel roof with all the offroad accoutrements. Steel bumpers, sliders, 35”s, air ride, dual lockers, sway bar disconnect and harvester etc.

They will price themselves out of the market fast with people who would normally purchase a TRD Pro Sequoia, TRD Pro 4Runner, Land Cruiser, GX550, Bronco, and Pro 4X Armada if they enter Rivian territory.

They announced the pricing and Harvester at the same time right? So they would have priced that cost in already.

I gathered during the reveal that pricing wasn’t established because a lot of people were asking and nobody at SM was saying. The simply announced starting prices of suv and truck as both under $60K and since it’s not fully developed they don’t have an actual number. They probably have a good range/idea but until all is said and done they won’t know until it’s complete and they have hard costs

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Edit: Whoopsie

Best of luck to them if they price it at $10k.

I’m willing to pay up into the high $80s, but I would expect a steel roof with all the offroad accoutrements. Steel bumpers, sliders, 35”s, air ride, dual lockers, sway bar disconnect and harvester etc.

They will price themselves out of the market fast with people who would normally purchase a TRD Pro Sequoia, TRD Pro 4Runner, Land Cruiser, GX550, Bronco, and Pro 4X Armada if they enter Rivian territory.

They announced the pricing and Harvester at the same time right? So they would have priced that cost in already.

This is all they’ve announced:

Pricing​

• Traveler: $50,000 with incentives
• Terra: $51,500 with incentives
• Pricing is for U.S. market only. Entry model price reflects targeted starting price with incentives. Available incentives at the time of sale may vary based on current federal, state, and local offerings. These incentives are subject to change without notice and may impact the final purchase price. Price is subject to change and excludes taxes, title, license and other fees, as well as certain premium features and add-ons.
• Pricing is for U.S. market only. Retail price reflects lowest starting Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price (MSRP), and does not include any federal, state and/or local tax subsidies or incentives that may be available. Price is subject to change and excludes taxes, title, license and other fees, as well as certain premium features and add-ons.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

My build of a 2025 4-Runner TRD Pro or Trailhunter is $71k for either one, with minor differences.

I’d choose a Scout (BEV) over the 4-Runner TRD Pro or Trailhunter if the basic setup was close enough to the same and the Scout Traveler price was $10k-$15k more than the 4-Runner. And I’ve been a long-time fan of Toyota (several Prii, two Tacomas, a Tundra, an FJ40, a pile of other Toyotas).

To be honest, I’d buy the Scout over the 4-Runner regardless of the price because they don’t offer a BEV. If they offered a 4-Runner BEV, then there’d be some real competition to the Traveler and R1S.

 

[Chavannigans]

My build of a 2025 4-Runner TRD Pro or Trailhunter is $71k for either one, with minor differences.

I’d choose a Scout (BEV) over the 4-Runner TRD Pro or Trailhunter if the basic setup was close enough to the same and the Scout Traveler price was $10k-$15k more than the 4-Runner. And I’ve been a long-time fan of Toyota (several Prii, two Tacomas, a Tundra, an FJ40, a pile of other Toyotas).

To be honest, I’d buy the Scout over the 4-Runner regardless of the price because they don’t offer a BEV. If they offered a 4-Runner BEV, then there’d be some real competition to the Traveler and R1S.

Trying to be optimistic here.

But I feel the base Scout will be on par with the TRD Pro 4Runner and Trailhunter.

The TRD Pro functional offroad features are a mild lift, rear locker, some extra traction control software, and EKDSS (sway bar disconnect).

The only thing a base Scout would lack is a sway bar disconnect (which makes a pretty big difference offroad with IFS) but even with 33” tires you’ll probably have better overall ground clearance since the Scout has a smooth belly.


You’ll have a much lower center of gravity with the Scout too.
A BEV 4Runner would be pretty wild. Maybe when Toyota solid state batteries materialize we will see one.
I attend the Lone Star Toyota Jamboree every year. It’s a week long offroad event that draws thousands of Toyotas from all over the Americas. Overall the guys into off-roading are against the more complex Toyota ICE engines that are going hybrid and turbo.
It would be interesting to see how Toyota woos that crowd to more sustainable vehicles.

This is all they’ve announced:

Pricing​

• Traveler: $50,000 with incentives
• Terra: $51,500 with incentives
• Pricing is for U.S. market only. Entry model price reflects targeted starting price with incentives. Available incentives at the time of sale may vary based on current federal, state, and local offerings. These incentives are subject to change without notice and may impact the final purchase price. Price is subject to change and excludes taxes, title, license and other fees, as well as certain premium features and add-ons.
• Pricing is for U.S. market only. Retail price reflects lowest starting Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price (MSRP), and does not include any federal, state and/or local tax subsidies or incentives that may be available. Price is subject to change and excludes taxes, title, license and other fees, as well as certain premium features and add-ons.

View attachment 6943

I may be thinking about this the wrong way, and I am not trying to say they announced the Harvester price at launch, but that the entry price range was announced at the same time as Harvester. They already had started the process of designing and figuring out the Harvester implementation when they announced the tentative entry price range.

In my mind a business spreads overhead costs like labor, electricity, the building, equipment, certifications, employee benefits, R&D, taxes, crash testing, and everything else that goes into building cars amongst all of their products, not just specific ones.

Kind of like someone buying cloth seats is still indirectly paying the same design department that developed the leather seating they didn’t get.

So it just sounds silly to me when someone implies Harvester buyers will be the only ones paying for the R&D costs of Harvesters when it would most likely be factored into all vehicles they sell.

Who knows, maybe there will be a line item on the invoice for a Harvester R&D Fee and I’ll have to eat my shorts.

All this being said, I’ve derailed your amazing post long enough so I’m bowing out of this one.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Trying to be optimistic here.

But I feel the base Scout will be on par with the TRD Pro 4Runner and Trailhunter.

The TRD Pro functional offroad features are a mild lift, rear locker, some extra traction control software, and EKDSS (sway bar disconnect).

The only thing a base Scout would lack is a sway bar disconnect (which makes a pretty big difference offroad with IFS) but even with 33” tires you’ll probably have better overall ground clearance since the Scout has a smooth belly.

I am super curious what the final rear suspension of the Scout will be.

You’ll have a much lower center of gravity with the Scout too.
A BEV 4Runner would be pretty wild. Maybe when Toyota solid state batteries materialize we will see one.
I attend the Lone Star Toyota Jamboree every year. It’s a week long offroad event that draws thousands of Toyotas from all over the Americas. Overall the guys into off-roading are against the more complex Toyota ICE engines that are going hybrid and turbo.
It would be interesting to see how Toyota woos that crowd to more sustainable vehicles.

I find that many of the people I’ve talked to who were against the “more complex” BEV have eventually realized the simplicity is much, much greater than an ICE. A lot of people don’t actually want to do engine work all the time, it’s just what they know.
I’ve been rebuilding vehicles for 40 years and I’m super tired of grease and oil getting everywhere. I am not only excited about having so little maintenance to do, I’m excited that I get to tinker with things like increasing range by adding auxiliary batteries fed by solar.

In my mind a business spreads overhead costs like labor, electricity, the building, equipment, certifications, employee benefits, R&D, taxes, crash testing, and everything else that goes into building cars amongst all of their products, not just specific ones.

Kind of like someone buying cloth seats is still indirectly paying the same design department that developed the leather seating they didn’t get.

So it just sounds silly to me when someone implies Harvester buyers will be the only ones paying for the R&D costs of Harvesters when it would most likely be factored into all vehicles they sell.

Who knows, maybe there will be a line item on the invoice for a Harvester R&D Fee and I’ll have to eat my shorts.

I have no doubt that the R&D costs will be distributed across all the models and trims. But I also expect that part of the reason for higher costs on certain trims and models has to do not just with parts cost but also with R&D costs. But I’m not in the industry.

All this being said, I’ve derailed your amazing post long enough so I’m bowing out of this one.

Nah, don’t go.

We can get back on track…

 

[cyure]

My build of a 2025 4-Runner TRD Pro or Trailhunter is $71k for either one, with minor differences.

I’d choose a Scout (BEV) over the 4-Runner TRD Pro or Trailhunter if the basic setup was close enough to the same and the Scout Traveler price was $10k-$15k more than the 4-Runner. And I’ve been a long-time fan of Toyota (several Prii, two Tacomas, a Tundra, an FJ40, a pile of other Toyotas).

To be honest, I’d buy the Scout over the 4-Runner regardless of the price because they don’t offer a BEV. If they offered a 4-Runner BEV, then there’d be some real competition to the Traveler and R1S.

Same. That was my other option was the TRD Off Road or Pro. But I just much prefer the Scout at this point. I finally saw a 6th Gen in a parking lot the other day. No emotion whatsoever. Im Scout all the way.

Plus I am not fond of the Toyota colors. There’s no yellow.

 

[cyure]

I am super curious what the final rear suspension of the Scout will be.



I find that many of the people I’ve talked to who were against the “more complex” BEV have eventually realized the simplicity is much, much greater than an ICE. A lot of people don’t actually want to do engine work all the time, it’s just what they know.
I’ve been rebuilding vehicles for 40 years and I’m super tired of grease and oil getting everywhere. I am not only excited about having so little maintenance to do, I’m excited that I get to tinker with things like increasing range by adding auxiliary batteries fed by solar.


I have no doubt that the R&D costs will be distributed across all the models and trims. But I also expect that part of the reason for higher costs on certain trims and models has to do not just with parts cost but also with R&D costs. But I’m not in the industry.


Nah, don’t go.

We can get back on track…

I have been thinking about this pricing discussion and there is one big positive that no one has mentioned yet. No dealer markup. When I was thinking the new 4Runner was going to be my next new vehicle I called quite a few dealers in the state of Illinois. First of all they don’t make that many TRD PROs. From what I was reading about 2500 a year of that trim. So they were all telling me anywhere from $5 to $10 over list price. And then the TRD OffRoad I was being quoted $5 over.

So yes we may have to pay more for certain options or the EREV but at least we are getting something for our money. It’s not just going to line a dealers pockets.

Just another example of how if you look for the positive you can usually find something.

Now everyone go forth and have a great day!!

 

[J Alynn]

Same. That was my other option was the TRD Off Road or Pro. But I just much prefer the Scout at this point. I finally saw a 6th Gen in a parking lot the other day. No emotion whatsoever. Im Scout all the way.

Plus I am not fond of the Toyota colors. There’s no yellow.

I had a red one drive by as I was getting mail the other day. I’m not generally a fan of red on SUVs but I really liked it in that color

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Another issue with every other truck/SUV that isn't a Scout, Lightning, R1, or Silverado/Sierra is that I wouldn't get much use out of a solar/battery trailer.

 

[cyure]

Another issue with every other truck/SUV that isn't a Scout, Lightning, R1, or Silverado/Sierra is that I wouldn't get much use out of a solar/battery trailer.

I was walking my dog yesterday and the family behind us with the Rivian truck had their portable solar panels in the front yard charging. First time I have seen someone do that.

 

[Chavannigans]

I am super curious what the final rear suspension of the Scout will be.



I find that many of the people I’ve talked to who were against the “more complex” BEV have eventually realized the simplicity is much, much greater than an ICE. A lot of people don’t actually want to do engine work all the time, it’s just what they know.
I’ve been rebuilding vehicles for 40 years and I’m super tired of grease and oil getting everywhere. I am not only excited about having so little maintenance to do, I’m excited that I get to tinker with things like increasing range by adding auxiliary batteries fed by solar.


I have no doubt that the R&D costs will be distributed across all the models and trims. But I also expect that part of the reason for higher costs on certain trims and models has to do not just with parts cost but also with R&D costs. But I’m not in the industry.


Nah, don’t go.

We can get back on track…

Tried and true rear suspension for solid axles and offroad capability would be a separate shock and coil spring setup.

Coilovers are more complex, and expensive. They also need a lot of room to have meaningful amounts of travel. My buddy has King coilovers on his Dana 60 swapped GX470. We had to cut the body in the rear passenger compartment to let the struts stick up about 12” into the cargo area.

It’s possible, but not likely.

Coil spring buckets are easy to swap air bags into and you can use the same shocks for coil spring and air spring models.

Maybe a 5 link setup to keep it all together?

I think the concept of BEVs being less complex and requiring little to no maintenance is something ICE folks just aren’t aware of.

Most of it comes down to people wanting to be able to fix them if they break down on the side of the trail. Not necessarily wanting to do their own maintenance.

I opened the hood of a few TRD Pro Sequoias I test drove and WOW. They really have gone in a completely different direction. Even the non-hybrid engines are absolutely crammed in there with pipes and hoses running everywhere. You can’t even see a valve covers anymore without tearing into a spaghetti of coolant and oil lines.

There is literally no way I could get into one and pull the spark plugs or swap a water pump without spending most of the day taking things off and making a mess.

It will come down to educating the customers on why EVs are less likely to fail and have less things to go wrong off grid. A lot of that crowd leans conservative and does not like EVs since it is viewed as a political issue. But if you can just focus on the advantages and how they will make life easier for them they may come around.

Same. That was my other option was the TRD Off Road or Pro. But I just much prefer the Scout at this point. I finally saw a 6th Gen in a parking lot the other day. No emotion whatsoever. Im Scout all the way.

Plus I am not fond of the Toyota colors. There’s no yellow.

They need to bring back that FJ Yellow they had years ago. But they seem to be in their earth tone era.

I have been thinking about this pricing discussion and there is one big positive that no one has mentioned yet. No dealer markup. When I was thinking the new 4Runner was going to be my next new vehicle I called quite a few dealers in the state of Illinois. First of all they don’t make that many TRD PROs. From what I was reading about 2500 a year of that trim. So they were all telling me anywhere from $5 to $10 over list price. And then the TRD OffRoad I was being quoted $5 over.

So yes we may have to pay more for certain options or the EREV but at least we are getting something for our money. It’s not just going to line a dealers pockets.

Just another example of how if you look for the positive you can usually find something.

Now everyone go forth and have a great day!!

There is our little ray of sunshine!

Great point. Toyota dealerships here are really bad about that. They barely have any new cars on their lot and want a premium on all of them.

There will definitely be an advantage to the direct sales model for us with Scout.

 

[cyure]

Tried and true rear suspension for solid axles and offroad capability would be a separate shock and coil spring setup.

Coilovers are more complex, and expensive. They also need a lot of room to have meaning amounts of travel. My buddy has King coilovers on his Dana 60 swapped GX470. We had to cut the body in the rear passenger compartment to let the struts stick about 12” into the cargo area.

It’s possible, but not likely.

Coil spring buckets are easy to swap air bags into and you can use the same shocks for coil spring and air spring models.

Maybe a 5 link setup to keep it all together?

I think the concept of BEVs being less complex and requiring little to no maintenance is something ICE folks just aren’t aware of.

Most of it comes down to people wanting to be able to fix them if they break down on the side of the trail. Not necessarily wanting to do their own maintenance.

I opened the hood of a few TRD Pro Sequoias I test drove and WOW. They really have gone in a completely different direction. Even the non-hybrid engines are absolutely crammed in there with pipes and hoses running everywhere. You can’t even see a valve covers anymore without tearing into a spaghetti of coolant and oil lines.

There is literally no way I could get into one and pull the spark plugs or swap a water pump without spending most of the day taking things off and making a mess.

It will come down to educating the customers on why EVs are less likely to fail and have less things to go wrong off grid. A lot of that crowd leans conservative and does not like EVs since it is viewed as a political issue. But if you can just focus on the advantages and how they will make life easier for them they may come around.


They need to bring back that FJ Yellow they had years ago. But they seem to be in their earth tone era.

There is our little ray of sunshine!

Great point. Toyota dealerships here are really bad about that. They barely have any new cars on their lot and want a premium on all of them.

There will definitely be an advantage to the direct sales model for us with Scout.

Thanks for mentioning that about maintenance being so much less on the BEV. I’m still 50/50 on which one I’m getting and that’s a huge pro in the BEV camp.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Thanks for mentioning that about maintenance being so much less on the BEV. I’m still 50/50 on which one I’m getting and that’s a huge pro in the BEV camp.

I have almost 50,000 miles on our Mustang Mach-E and have spent less than $100 for maintenance in more than three years. Our little 12V lead-acid battery is probably nearing the end of its life, so I’ll probably have to double our maintenance cost this year.

Doing my own maintenance on our BEVs consists of pouring some washer fluid in the reservoir, checking the suspension, axle boots, rotating tires (which is the most time-intensive and most expensive part if I paid someone else to do it).

I’d spend more than $200 to have a local shop do oil changes and tire rotations every six months on any ICE we owned. If I were to do my own regular ICE maintenance, it would cost me at least a couple of hours not spending time with family on a weekend. Not only does having a BEV cost less in maintenance, it saves tons of family time.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I think the concept of BEVs being less complex and requiring little to no maintenance is something ICE folks just aren’t aware of.

Most of it comes down to people wanting to be able to fix them if they break down on the side of the trail. Not necessarily wanting to do their own maintenance.

I opened the hood of a few TRD Pro Sequoias I test drove and WOW. They really have gone in a completely different direction. Even the non-hybrid engines are absolutely crammed in there with pipes and hoses running everywhere. You can’t even see a valve covers anymore without tearing into a spaghetti of coolant and oil lines.

There is literally no way I could get into one and pull the spark plugs or swap a water pump without spending most of the day taking things off and making a mess.

Yeah, I started to move away from doing my own maintenance on our ’19 Tacoma. There’s just too much stuff in the way to want to waste a bunch of time on it. It didn’t hurt that I’ve moved from poverty to middle class in the past 40 years so I can pay someone whose job it is to have the tools and time to do the maintenance.

It will come down to educating the customers on why EVs are less likely to fail and have less things to go wrong off grid. A lot of that crowd leans conservative and does not like EVs since it is viewed as a political issue. But if you can just focus on the advantages and how they will make life easier for them they may come around.

100%.
One of my favorite advantages is that for local driving, I’m in complete control of my fuel. Once I installed solar, I don’t have to have anyone’s “permission” to fuel my vehicles.

They need to bring back that FJ Yellow they had years ago. But they seem to be in their earth tone era.

Get a wrap.