All gas

[MLamar]

Hi, I was looking to pre order the new scout and was so excited, until I seen where the only 2 options available are Gas/electric and Electric. Will there be an all gas engine available?
Thank you in advance.

 

[THil08]

Oh really? How many coal chutes do you use or even see every day?

Now you’re being stupid. Bye bye.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

I’ve really tried pulling back on getting annnoyed and venting about certain topics-other than this topic. 10 F#%€’G threads with different names and the same pointless complaint. Like tomorrow SM is gonna turn around, spend 1.2 million to modify the factory still being built and then another million plus to redesign the Scouts to handle a transmission, drive shaft lots of liquid holding containers, etc…. to create a vehicle that gets 18 mpg.
Like -Damn Scott, why didn’t YOU think of that
?????????
(Blew it again with another rant-?

I don't know how to be delicate with my statement, but I'll try.

People, in general, just have the need to try to bend everything to their liking.

Like, I farmhouses, so I'll buy this 100 year old one, and side it black with gray trim, change all the windows, put a steel roof on it, and gut the interior...

It's a narcissistic trait people just have, can't help it. I want that thing, but I want people/companies to change everything about it to suit me. Center of the universe.

 

[J Alynn]

I don't know how to be delicate with my statement, but I'll try.

People, in general, just have the need to try to bend everything to their liking.

Like, I farmhouses, so I'll buy this 100 year old one, and side it black with gray trim, change all the windows, put a steel roof on it, and gut the interior...

It's a narcissistic trait people just have, can't help it. I want that thing, but I want people/companies to change everything about it to suit me. Center of the universe.

I’m a farmhouse guy too. Mine is all white but ideally I’d go all black/charcoal with white trim. Good on gray metal roof-have that on porch and shed. But totally get your point and agree. Just cracks me up that they always know better than the top execs ?

 

[Scoutsie]

I’m a farmhouse guy too. Mine is all white but ideally I’d go all black/charcoal with white trim. Good on gray metal roof-have that on porch and shed. But totally get your point and agree. Just cracks me up that they always know better than the top execs ?

I like a nice farmhouse, but only if it’s a kit made to look like a rustic farmhouse so I can strip the paint and then give it my own aged look. I don’t get your point.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

I’m a farmhouse guy too. Mine is all white but ideally I’d go all black/charcoal with white trim. Good on gray metal roof-have that on porch and shed. But totally get your point and agree. Just cracks me up that they always know better than the top execs ?

Exactly, from their median income couch, having never set foot in a factory or launched product, they know exactly what they would have done differently than the stupid millionaires paid millions.

All you gotta do is...

Gee, why didn't anyone think of that, so easy.

 

[THil08]

id like a farmhouse but i grew up as a beach kid living not even a mile from the beach. So i would take a beach bungalow.

 

[J Alynn]

Exactly, from their median income couch, having never set foot in a factory or launched product, they know exactly what they would have done differently than the stupid millionaires paid millions.

All you gotta do is...

Gee, why didn't anyone think of that, so easy.

And as a side note. I’m an architect so I can fairly speak of building design but it is amazing how there are armchair quarterbacks for every industry and people believe their particular interests are what everyone else wants too.
Like telling the cereal company they need 10% more marshmallows because their kid has a sugar addiction ?
I am trying harder to be nicer! Offering positives but that is just one topic that angers me. Experts are experts for a reason and so long as the research is clear and supports them we should respect their trade craft.

 

[THil08]

And as a side note. I’m an architect so I can fairly speak of building design but it is amazing how there are armchair quarterbacks for every industry and people believe their particular interests are what everyone else wants too.
Like telling the cereal company they need 10% more marshmallows because their kid has a sugar addiction ?
I am trying harder to be nicer! Offering positives but that is just one topic that angers me. Experts are experts for a reason and so long as the research is clear and supports them we should respect their trade craft.

Im gonna need to use that one. Armchair Quarterback, im adding that to my list with Keyboard Warriors.

 

[CarTechGeek]

I'm plenty optimistic, but not about a pretend solution.

Electric vehicle though, yeah, they're definitely the future. EVs will pretty much completely replace combustion cars in new vehicle sales in about ten years - the mid-2030's.

Hydrogen for Passenger cars have ZERO reason for optimism. It's a complete dead end. Hydrogen is an absolutely terrible energy carrier. It's inefficient and hard to contain, it needs a massive infrastructure that doesn't exist, that no one wants to pay for. From every angle it's just terrible.

Maybe thirty years ago when EVs were using Lead Acid batteries, had short range, and took hours to charge, EVs seemed impossible that they could never replace ICE cars, so Hydrogen at least seemed like you could fuel it in a reasonable time an have reasonable range. Everything else still sucked but when your "green" competition can't even do the basics, terrible is better than impossible.

That was when Toyota started investing in Hydrogen Fuel cells. But EV's have since proven they can ranges of 300+ and 500+ miles and can now charge in minutes. Now EVs are no longer impossible, and terrible hydrogen cars are toast. As soon as the first Supercharger trip (more than 10 years ago) was made cross country it should have been obvious to anyone paying attention, that Hydrogen passenger cars were DOA, and really even sooner for anyone in the industry.

But Toyota can't admit it, because they are deep into the Sunk Cost Fallacy, and probably some face saving going on as well.

They have spent decades, and who knows how many billions with ZERO returns, and no real hope of returns. No one want to admit this was the most colossal, and costly mistake in company history.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

And as a side note. I’m an architect so I can fairly speak of building design but it is amazing how there are armchair quarterbacks for every industry and people believe their particular interests are what everyone else wants too.
Like telling the cereal company they need 10% more marshmallows because their kid has a sugar addiction ?
I am trying harder to be nicer! Offering positives but that is just one topic that angers me. Experts are experts for a reason and so long as the research is clear and supports them we should respect their trade craft.

Same.

Also, I recognize that I'm not the end all be all engineer in the automotive world and certainly people from outside can offer a fresh perspective worth considering. "Fresh eyes" and all that. It's why Scout can move and react quickly, for now. They don't have some baked in, always been this way culture. When I was at Stellantis launching the JT, there was no way I could have been like, what if we make it an EREV, and anyone would have done literally anything positive.

So I try to maintain a balance and open mind, but it's definitely never as easy as "all you gotta do is".

 

[Lost in the Scout]

I don’t think EVs will replace combustion engines until there is a change in battery technology and cost. After that, I think we will see a huge jump to EVs. Even at the current low adoption rate BEVs, batteries are $$$$.

Right now the cost is keeping EVs with the more affluent crowd. The price, practical value, and resale is getting closer and closer to ICE vehicles everyday.

 

[Jrgunn5150]

I don’t think EVs will replace combustion engines until there is a change in battery technology and cost. After that, I think we will see a huge jump to EVs. Even at the current low adoption rate BEVs, batteries are $$$$.

Right now the cost is keeping EVs with the more affluent crowd. The price, practical value, and resale is getting closer and closer to ICE vehicles everyday.

I disagree.

I believe, Tesla's were luxury items, and marketed as such. People bought them for the prestige and cachet, not to save the earth or anything else.

Rivian came along and did the same, I worked on that launch, every conversation was, "is it premium, does it feel premium, will it be premium", became a inside joke they said, believed, and wanted it so much.

Then the big 3 went, we want that pie, we want higher prices per unit, rather than a high volume of units at low profit. And tried to stick F-150's with cells strapped in the frame rails and weird Mustang crossovers into that 70--8--110k range for the Hummer ?

So the market was slowing, then, turns out you can't print infinity money and yeet it into the economy forever, inflation... Suddenly payments are up hundreds of dollars a month... And the vehicles sit... and the headlines that get the clicks say EV MARKET CRASHING...

What people want, is a vehicle they can afford and depend on. Most people don't really care about much else, at all. Tesla took that enthusiast buyer, Rivian tapped into it, and the big three should have followed up with EV Cruzes and Sonics.. But instead they went full tropic thunder at the end of the pool they don't belong in.

When China breaks into the North American market for real, and it's inevitable they do, mass adoption will follow. Once 4 other people in Trevor's apartment complex have Zeekrs and Xiomi's they paid under 20k for that have full autonomous driving and run all week without a recharge... He'll skip the next Honda Fit or Civic, and buy one himself.

The more are out there, the more people will warm up to them.

 

[Cranky Canuck]

I don’t think EVs will replace combustion engines until there is a change in battery technology and cost. After that, I think we will see a huge jump to EVs. Even at the current low adoption rate BEVs, batteries are $$$$.

Right now the cost is keeping EVs with the more affluent crowd. The price, practical value, and resale is getting closer and closer to ICE vehicles everyday.

@Jrgunn5150 is absolutely correct.

As for EVs, there is not need for a change in battery technology, the technology has been good enough since 2012 and is improving at around 1% per year so if you're waiting for a huge jump in battery tech you're going to be waiting a long time. It's a mature technology. As for cost, that has been solved too but most legacy automakers as @Jrgunn5150 correctly pointed out decided to go up market for higher profits.

Hyundai/Kia and a few others have been notable exceptions though and they are doing very very well with their EVs. The adoption rate isn't "low" either. That is a myth. EVs have been driving growth in the car market since 2017 - which is when combustion vehicle sales peaked, they have been declining ever since. The percentage of overall car sales that are EV has been growing on an exponential curve and will continue to do so for the near term.

The price of many EVs is already below the average new vehicle sale price, the practical value is already better than a combustion vehicle for the majority of drivers and use cases, and resale is fine if you exclude Tesla and it's dumb, random, unpredictable pricing adjustments. Many EVs hold their value very well which doesn't even affect the utility of the vehicle since resale is a made-up hypothetical. If depreciation is an actual concern for you then why are you buying any new vehicle at all? Buy used.

EVs for me and many other have already replaced ICE vehicles and have done for many years (8 in my case). I'm never going back to combustion vehicles, EVs do everything they can do and many things ICE cars can't!

 

[J Alynn]

The other miss the BIG 3 had is the easiest market to adapt is ages 20-25 yet they typically have the lowest incomes. Offer a couple small, EV potent models at a cost they can afford and you’ll have customers for life but as @Cranky Canuck stated, they went for the big profit margins. And my hunch is most affluent buyers don’t want a ford or GMC. They want luxury so manufacturers need to evolve but stay in their lane

 

[Jrgunn5150]

If depreciation is an actual concern for you then why are you buying any new vehicle at all? Buy used.

It's recently dawned on me there's an entire sub-generation who came of age in 2019-2023 and thought that selling cars for more than they paid for them was normal lol.

 

[04Ram2500Hemi]

It's recently dawned on me there's an entire sub-generation who came of age in 2019-2023 and thought that selling cars for more than they paid for them was normal lol.

There’s a lot of truth to this! I’ve only had it happen once. I bought a Ford Raptor in March of 2020 when nothing was selling for below sticker. Then in August of 2021 when I traded the Raptor in on my TRX, I got $6,000 more than what I paid for it. It was wild!

 

[Cranky Canuck]

The other miss the BIG 3 had is the easiest market to adapt is ages 20-25 yet they typically have the lowest incomes. Offer a couple small, EV potent models at a cost they can afford and you’ll have customers for life but as @Cranky Canuck stated, they went for the big profit margins. And my hunch is most affluent buyers do t want a ford or GMC. They want luxury so manufacturers need to evolve but stay in their lane

This is why the big 3 lobbied so hard to get the snot tariffed out of the Chinese brands. Right now the best cheap EVs come from China and the legacy companies know that if we let those vehicles into our market they'll sell like hotcakes and make lifetime buyers out of the people that own them, just as the Japanese brands did in the 80's. How many people do you know that will now only ever buy a Toyota or Honda?

Imagine if we let BYD or Zeekr or even MG sell long-range, $20k EVs here? Do you really think those 20-somethings would ever buy a more expensive, lower quality Ford or GM product down the road? Of course not! For now legacy auto has a captive audience that doesn't know what affordable EVs are - and they intend to keep it that way for as long as they can (and hope we don't ever visit Europe or Australia and come back asking why we don't have those brands here?!).

 

[J Alynn]

This is why the big 3 lobbied so hard to get the snot tariffed out of the Chinese brands. Right now the best cheap EVs come from China and the legacy companies know that if we let those vehicles into our market they'll sell like hotcakes and make lifetime buyers out of the people that own them, just as the Japanese brands did in the 80's. How many people do you know that will now only ever buy a Toyota or Honda?

Imagine if we let BYD or Zeekr or even MG sell long-range, $20k EVs here? Do you really think those 20-somethings would ever buy a more expensive, lower quality Ford or GM product down the road? Of course not! For now legacy auto has a captive audience that doesn't know what affordable EVs are - and they intend to keep it that way for as long as they can (and hope we don't ever visit Europe or Australia and come back asking why we don't have those brands here?!).

Im a Honda/Acura person. I’ve tried German and always end up back at Honda. Tried Toyota and good but just like Hondas for reasons you stated