Is there anything SM could offer to get you to switch from EREV to BEV?

[SpaceEVDriver]

@cyure, you might also post a companion question to this thread: “What would make you switch from BEV to EREV?”

My answer is, “I’d rather ride my bicycle.”

 

[J Alynn]

You can always tag me. I don’t mind.

I’ll tag you in. Since I’m still learning. My daily commute is about the miles round trip and weekends maybe 100-150 miles depending on what’s going on. In theory majority of the time I work from home M and Th and sometimes T or W if I need quiet time. So in theory majority if I plugged in Sunday night and Wednesday night from say 7pm until 4pm (21 hours) is it feasible that I could get by without even adding a charger? Spaced out on that schedule I am thinking I could get by without a charger. Thoughts

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I’ll tag you in. Since I’m still learning. My daily commute is about the miles round trip and weekends maybe 100-150 miles depending on what’s going on. In theory majority of the time I work from home M and Th and sometimes T or W if I need quiet time. So in theory majority if I plugged in Sunday night and Wednesday night from say 7pm until 4pm (21 hours) is it feasible that I could get by without even adding a charger? Spaced out on that schedule I am thinking I could get by without a charger. Thoughts

I’m guessing you mean three miles round trip?

Let’s expand it to 25 miles daily driving for any reason, five days a week. And you drive 75 miles on Saturday and 75 miles on Sunday.
Assume you don’t drive aggressively.
Assume the vehicle gets the top-end of the EPA range estimate for around town driving and 80% of that for the longer trips.
Assume you have a Level 1 charger (regular wall outlet charger, usually reserved for emergencies).

Scenario 1:
tldr: You’re always right at the recover-everything-over the week.
Assumptions:

• 75 miles on Saturday
• 75 miles on Sunday
• 25 miles each day of the week
• A 25 mile drive uses ~7% of your battery
• A 75 mile drive on the freeway uses ~27% of your battery
• You have a time-of-use constraint where the utility charges you extra between 16:00 and 19:00, so you have a reminder to plug in at 19:30 on weeknights.
• You unplug just before you leave in the morning.
• You precondition the cabin so it’s warm/cool when you get it, but that doesn’t use much energy.
• You have a Level 1 charger

Some math:

• From 19:30 to 07:30 is 12 hours.
• 12 hours * 1.2 kW = 14.4 kWh of charge.
• For a 120 kWh battery, that’s 12% of your battery.
• The math is easy because a Level 1 charger charges about 1% per hour for a 120 kWh battery.

EDIT: I made a math error and there’s approximately 2% more charge available than I’d calculated. I marked where the first error occurred, but didn’t bother going through all the math to fix it everywhere.
Start on the weekend with 100% charge (you’ll see it recover throughout the week).

• Weekend:
  • Saturday
    • Your battery is fully charged by 07:30 AM.
    • You head out to begin your 75-mile day doing whatever.
    • Let’s put all of it on the freeway so you’re not getting the 350 miles range but instead about 280 miles range.
    • 75 miles is 27% of 280 miles, so that’s what you arrive home with.
    • But you get home at 17:00 and time-of-use doesn’t apply on the weekends, so you plug in right away.
  • Sunday
    • You don’t leave home until a more civilized hour of 10:00.
    • From 17:00 to 10:00 is 17 hours.
    • That’s 17 hours * 1.2 kW = 20.4 kWh
    • That’s 17% of your battery
    • Sunday morning you only have 100% - 27% + 17% = 90% State of Charge.
    • No big deal.
    • You head out again for another 75 miles of driving, again using 27%.
    • You arrive home at 17:00 again and plug in.
    • The vehicle has 90-27 = 63%.
    • You charge from 17:00 to 07:30 because Mondays suck.
• During the Week:
  • Monday:
    • The vehicle charged 14.5 hours or 14.5% charge 12.5 hours for 15 kWh, or 12.5% increase in charge.
    • You leave for work with ~75% 78% charge.
    • You return after 25 miles of driving with 68% 71% state of charge.
  • Tuesday
    • Overnight, you gained 12% of your battery, leaving home with 80% state of charge.
    • Return with 73%
    • Gain 12% overnight.
  • Wednesday
    • You leave home with 85%
    • Return with 78%
    • Gain 12% overnight
  • Thursday
    • Leave home with 90%
    • Return with 83%
    • Gain 12% overnight
  • Friday
    • Leave home with 95%
    • Return with 88%
    • End with 100% overnight
  • Saturday repeats.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Simplified math:
L1 charging means 1% per hour on a 120 kWh battery.
So you need 100 hours of charging to get 100% recharge on a 120 kWh battery.
Assuming 12 hours of charging overnight for 7 nights, that’s 84 hours.
You need an additional 16 hours distributed throughout the week to recover all 120 kWh or 350 miles if you drive the full 350 miles.
Or you can go 84% of your range weekly and recover all of that within a reasonable set of charging hours on a Level 1 charger.

If you have an L2 charger (say, 2.4, 4.8, 7.2, or 9.6 kW charge rate), for a 120 kWh battery:
2.4 kW charge rate recovers 2% per hour, so you only need 50 hours, so 4 12-hour nights plus a couple of hours will recover 100%.
4.8 kW charge rate recovers 4% per hour, so you only need 25 hours, or 2 12-hour nights plus an extra hour.
7.2 kW charge rate recovers 6% per hour, so you only need 17 hours, or 1.5 12-hour nights.
9.6 kW charge rate recovers 8% per hour, so you only need a single 12 hour night plus a half hour sometime.

 

[cyure]

Simplified math:
L1 charging means 1% per hour on a 120 kWh battery.
So you need 100 hours of charging to get 100% recharge on a 120 kWh battery.
Assuming 12 hours of charging overnight for 7 nights, that’s 84 hours.
You need an additional 16 hours distributed throughout the week to recover all 120 kWh or 350 miles if you drive the full 350 miles.
Or you can go 84% of your range weekly and recover all of that within a reasonable set of charging hours on a Level 1 charger.

If you have an L2 charger (say, 2.4, 4.8, 7.2, or 9.6 kW charge rate), for a 120 kWh battery:
2.4 kW charge rate recovers 2% per hour, so you only need 50 hours, so 4 12-hour nights plus a couple of hours will recover 100%.
4.8 kW charge rate recovers 4% per hour, so you only need 25 hours, or 2 12-hour nights plus an extra hour.
7.2 kW charge rate recovers 6% per hour, so you only need 17 hours, or 1.5 12-hour nights.
9.6 kW charge rate recovers 8% per hour, so you only need a single 12 hour night plus a half hour sometime.

Even though it’s probably overkill (I work from home so some days I don’t even go anywhere) I’m still planning on getting a L2 charger. It will just make me feel better.

 

[04Ram2500Hemi]

If you think logically about charging.. you have electricity everywhere. Gas is in a storage tank and it expires. If you have a gas motor in your hybrid/plug-in hybrid/erev, you need to run the motor often and you still have to service it at least every 5k miles.

Low voltage charging, at a 110v outlet, it is possible. It's slower, and better for your batteries.

I read somewhere, someone had a plug-in hybrid RAV4 prime and was able to get someone at the Casey's general store to allow this person to plug in their RAV4 to one of their wall outlets. It took 10 hours or so.

If you are in dire straits, you still have options with a full BEV. It seems like gas stations are everywhere, but think about it. Electricity is literally everywhere.

As BEVs continue evolving the charging infrastructure in the vehicle will get better and better. It won't be a bad idea to just sit somewhere and charge at 110v every now and then. Also, as the charging architecture improves, the charging rate at 110v may not be that slow.

The other thing is how the harvester + electric models use lithium iron phosphate batteries vs the nickel manganese cobalt batteries in the BEV models. Also the harvester model cuts your electric range in half and lowers your towing capacity.

I think if more people knew more facts about all of it, it would be beneficial.

There is a slight flaw in this thought. You do not have electricity everywhere. I can circle a huge portion of Montana where electricity and charging don’t exist. However, I can take gas with me anywhere.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Even though it’s probably overkill (I work from home so some days I don’t even go anywhere) I’m still planning on getting a L2 charger. It will just make me feel better.

Totally. We have three for two cars...

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Even though it’s probably overkill (I work from home so some days I don’t even go anywhere) I’m still planning on getting a L2 charger. It will just make me feel better.

Also, if it’s very cold where your car is charging, it’s possible you will use more charge than I estimated and your car won’t charge up as much overnight in the very cold, so you might be better off with an L2.

And recovering from a long trip is quite a bit quicker with an L2.

 

[cyure]

Also, if it’s very cold where your car is charging, it’s possible you will use more charge than I estimated and your car won’t charge up as much overnight in the very cold, so you might be better off with an L2.

And recovering from a long trip is quite a bit quicker with an L2.

Garage but it’s not heated and yes it gets cold here. Next week we will be down into single digits at night.

 

[BartMan Terra Total EV]

@cyure, you might also post a companion question to this thread: “What would make you switch from BEV to EREV?”

My answer is, “I’d rather ride my bicycle.”

"I want to ride my bicycle i like to ride my bike, I want ride my bicycle were ever i like"