Extra, Extra....Read All About It!

[R1TVT]

Especially considering that they are really only selling a BMW/Audi/Merc competitor and not something in a lower price bracket.

That is about to change with R2... I would think going mainstream with R2 will really be impactful, but the Last mile / Fleet opportunity for the vans has to be huge too. That is something to watch, especially as new entrants start purchasing vans beyond Amazon & leveraging fleet software.

 

[cyure]

That is about to change with R2... I would think going mainstream with R2 will really be impactful, but the Last mile / Fleet opportunity for the vans has to be huge too. That is something to watch, especially as new entrants start purchasing vans beyond Amazon & leveraging fleet software.

I keep waiting to hear they have opened for orders. I know Rivian isn’t Scout but I’m curious how soon prior to delivery they will be taking orders.

I may have already asked you, but how long was it between order and when you got your Rivian truck?

 

[Chuckles]

I wouldn't say they're doing great. They made $154 million gross profit from software (VW) and lost $130 million in automotive gross profit. VW is keeping them afloat. They'd be far more successful if they stopped making cars.

 

[BeerParty]

Ha! Never giving up on my PBY dream! Did you see the pictures I posted. I got the Gemini AI to change some of the pictures my husband took to PBY. GORGEOUS. I honestly don’t know what I will do if they don’t have PBY.

Glad you are still full steam ahead with PBY. Yep, I saw the pictures, they look beautiful. I hope they offer this color, but if they don't I'm sure you will find a way to get PBY, I have faith in you!

 

[speedrye]

Well, the headline may be a little misleading. The article seems to indicate that it was a testing/trial run, and they’re using what they learned for the next revision. I’m skeptical too, but one of these days they might be useful for the boring/tedious/dangerous stuff.

I wasn't too impressed with the 5mm accuracy for placing parts, but that's a heck of a lot better than the kids making a Big Mac. Perhaps they should do a trial run in fast food.

 

[R1TVT]

They'd be far more successful if they stopped making cars.

Sure - if you just look at the financial numbers and not take into perspective their timeline or business objectives, you could think that.

But, you don't STOP making cars if your goal is to make cars, simply because you are spending money to get your brand established and bring your second entrant to market.

You could say that about any start-up or entity that requires investment. Yes, its difficult - there are headwinds, there is also existing competition and pressure from foreign competitors that would love to come here and eat their lunch on US soil, but that's not a great perspective to have based on building a new business, or based on their short life span as an OEM building trucks & SUV's. This will be a critical time for Rivian though, and bringing a mass market vehicle to production to and selling at volume is what they have been driving toward. Its great that they have investments like VW's to propel them forward. The question will be how well they can scale and how many units they can sell with R2 (and support) as they expand their infrastructure. Having a realistic perspective & expectation on what is possible from a new entrant is important - and will be important for us (as we watch Scout bring their first trucks to market). Of course Scout has an advantage that Rivian did not have being part of VW group. With that additional perspective, what Rivian has been able to achieve is pretty impressive. It's not a short-term play.

I may have already asked you, but how long was it between order and when you got your Rivian truck?

I ordered my R1T around September of 2019 and signed my P&S in April of 2022.

 

[cyure]

They just need to get it to market faster.

RJ Scaringe Says Rivian R3 Will Undercut R2 Pricing

Rivian fans got a little surprise last week when RJ Scaringe sat down with the Rotary Club of Atlanta and casually confirmed something we’ve all been wondering about, the R3 is going to come in noticeably cheaper than the R2. That’s a big deal because Rivian has been holding firm on the R2’s...

riviantrackr.com

 

[Chuckles]

Sure - if you just look at the financial numbers and not take into perspective their timeline or business objectives, you could think that.

But, you don't STOP making cars if your goal is to make cars, simply because you are spending money to get your brand established and bring your second entrant to market.

You could say that about any start-up or entity that requires investment. Yes, its difficult - there are headwinds, there is also existing competition and pressure from foreign competitors that would love to come here and eat their lunch on US soil, but that's not a great perspective to have based on building a new business, or based on their short life span as an OEM building trucks & SUV's. This will be a critical time for Rivian though, and bringing a mass market vehicle to production to and selling at volume is what they have been driving toward. Its great that they have investments like VW's to propel them forward. The question will be how well they can scale and how many units they can sell with R2 (and support) as they expand their infrastructure. Having a realistic perspective & expectation on what is possible from a new entrant is important - and will be important for us (as we watch Scout bring their first trucks to market). Of course Scout has an advantage that Rivian did not have being part of VW group. With that additional perspective, what Rivian has been able to achieve is pretty impressive. It's not a short-term play.



I ordered my R1T around September of 2019 and signed my P&S in April of 2022.

I still think they'd be better off designing software and licensing their zonal electrical architecture for other automakers like they're doing for VW. That is Rivian's strength. They've said Ford has expressed interest. There are many automakers large and small that could benefit from this technology.

 

[R1TVT]

I still think they'd be better off designing software and licensing their zonal electrical architecture for other automakers like they're doing for VW. That is Rivian's strength. They've said Ford has expressed interest. There are many automakers large and small that could benefit from this technology.

Sure, but Rivian's strength as an OEM and as a SW provider aren't mutually exclusive, and they are a new company. They changed the OEM and EV landscape by innovating and delivering the world's first production electric truck. They created competition. They improved the offerings of other OEM's.

Part of my point was that you shouldn't just quit building something or pivot simply because it requires more work, more investment and more time. We'd be left with a lot more mediocre crap if that was the case (and maybe no new Scouts). I'm thinking they are in this for the long haul and to create (hopefully) a lot more shareholder value with portfolio that includes trucks, SUV's, Fleets and SW to go with all of it.

 

[Chuckles]

Sure, but Rivian's strength as an OEM and as a SW provider aren't mutually exclusive, and they are a new company. They changed the OEM and EV landscape by innovating and delivering the world's first production electric truck. They created competition. They improved the offerings of other OEM's.

Part of my point was that you shouldn't just quit building something or pivot simply because it requires more work, more investment and more time. We'd be left with a lot more mediocre crap if that was the case (and maybe no new Scouts). I'm thinking they are in this for the long haul and to create (hopefully) a lot more shareholder value with portfolio that includes trucks, SUV's, Fleets and SW to go with all of it.

Im glad you enjoy their product and have faith in them. I have nothing against them. I do have a reasonable understanding of how the auto industry works and that it can take years to turn a profit. I certainly don't wish them to fail. I was hoping for a little more differentiation in the styling of the R2. Like many people, I find the R3X to be extremely appealing and would consider that as a replacement for my Golf depending on what Volkswagen replaces them with.

 

[THil08]

And Here’s is what bad finance’s look like.

 

[R1TVT]

I was hoping for a little more differentiation in the styling of the R2. Like many people, I find the R3X to be extremely appealing and would consider that as a replacement for my Golf depending on what Volkswagen replaces them with.

Agreed 100% on the R2 (but I guess they have 200K pre-orders or something like that, and haven't opened real ordering). I can see some design cues from cars like the golf, Audi A3, the 1990's Scirroco and / or WRX in the R3X. The R3X would be a killer Golf replacement.

 

[cyure]

Agreed 100% on the R2 (but I guess they have 200K pre-orders or something like that, and haven't opened real ordering). I can see some design cues from cars like the golf, Audi A3, the 1990's Scirroco and / or WRX in the R3X. The R3X would be a killer Golf replacement.

I really like that R3X. That’s my “I’m old and need a smaller car” plan. Unless of course by then SM has something smaller.

 

[J Alynn]

I still think they'd be better off designing software and licensing their zonal electrical architecture for other automakers like they're doing for VW. That is Rivian's strength. They've said Ford has expressed interest. There are many automakers large and small that could benefit from this technology.

Selling zonal architecture makes sense from the perspective of Scout first then slow expansion into VWAG portfolio. But selling it to the Fords of the world just gave them a bigger advantage which would hurt Rivian and Scout. Sell to a Lucid or small start-up makes sense but to large U.S. based companies seems to be ill advised from my vantage point.

 

[Chuckles]

I really like that R3X. That’s my “I’m old and need a smaller car” plan. Unless of course by then SM has something smaller.

Improved battery tech will open the floodgates for fun small cars here. The Europeans have some really cool retro EV's: Renault R4, R5, and Twingo are killing it. The Fiat Grande Panda, too. A 21st-century Citroen 2CV is coming. I wish the USA had a history of great small cars. I don't think we'll be seeing EV Gremlins, Chevettes, Citations, Escorts, Comets, Bobcats, Pintos, and Pacers (I wouldn't mind seeing a PT Cruiser or Neon, though).

 

[THil08]

Selling zonal architecture makes sense from the perspective of Scout first then slow expansion into VWAG portfolio. But selling it to the Fords of the world just gave them a bigger advantage which would hurt Rivian and Scout. Sell to a Lucid or small start-up makes sense but to large U.S. based companies seems to be ill advised from my vantage point.

It would be good in the short term. But Rivian would need to form a non compete contract. Making it be that Ford can't take the software for a year, reverse engineer it, build it up to be better, and then bail and make competition.

 

[J Alynn]

Improved battery tech will open the floodgates for fun small cars here. The Europeans have some really cool retro EV's: Renault R4, R5, and Twingo are killing it. The Fiat Grande Panda, too. A 21st-century Citroen 2CV is coming. I wish the USA had a history of great small cars. I don't think we'll be seeing EV Gremlins, Chevettes, Citations, Escorts, Comets, Bobcats, Pintos, and Pacers (I wouldn't mind seeing a PT Cruiser or Neon, though).

Europe had cool amazing cars back in the mid 90’s when I studied abroad. Shame nobody got serious to try and import them or provide enough mods to meet safety standards. Was at least 4 I would have ordered the moment I got home. We just have the bigger is better mentality here and it’s kind of a shame. Look at the awesome Japanese Kei cars too

 

[Chuckles]

Europe had cool amazing cars back in the mid 90’s when I studied abroad. Shame nobody got serious to try and import them or provide enough mods to meet safety standards. Was at least 4 I would have ordered the moment I got home. We just have the bigger is better mentality here and it’s kind of a shame. Look at the awesome Japanese Kei cars too

Cheap(er) gas and newer cities are the main differences. Raise our gas taxes to the level of the EU and we would see more EV's and sales of smaller cars. Too many in this country are preoccupied with "keeping up with the Joneses". We complain a lot about the the average price of a car now is $50,000 but there are plenty of affordable vehicles. People don't want to buy them. They'd rather have a used version of a more expensive car.

 

[J Alynn]

Cheap(er) gas and newer cities are the main differences. Raise our gas taxes to the level of the EU and we would see more EV's and sales of smaller cars. Too many in this country are preoccupied with "keeping up with the Joneses". We complain a lot about the the average price of a car now is $50,000 but there are plenty of affordable vehicles. People don't want to buy them. They'd rather have a used version of a more expensive car.

Truer words couldn’t be spoken

 

[Mousehunter]

Or - just make EV's compete on a level playing field and not piss off 50% of Americans again.

It is not that hard. Build a better product at a competitive price. But sure, tell 1/2 the consumer base they are stupid really will help expand EV sales. Try to force them, they will only fight back.