New Battery By 24M Technologies

[scouter39]

Sandy Munro just dropped a cool video with company 24M Technologies for a new battery that he says is what everyone should go to. Pretty cool.

They are spinning up production in time for Scout to start production. This could make a significant leap in range eliminating the range extender. You guys know more than me but thought this was cool to pass along.

 

[Chavannigans]

We really are on the brink of so many cool energy storage technologies being available at scale.

I have no doubt Scout will implement new battery tech in future iterations but for the EREV models LFPs are still a pretty great solution. I am also not sure if they even have the time to make changes now that they already have test mules running around.

 

[cyure]

Sandy Munro just dropped a cool video with company 24M Technologies for a new battery that he says is what everyone should go to. Pretty cool.

They are spinning up production in time for Scout to start production. This could make a significant leap in range eliminating the range extender. You guys know more than me but thought this was cool to pass along.

I am not an expert on batteries by any means and have never had an EV. However, the issue with anything new is that they are doing testing right now. They posted the winter testing video not too long ago. Not sure if you saw it, but they have test mules right now. They mentioned testing in heat at the presentation at Nationals.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

There’s pretty-much-zero probability that 24M will be ready for any kind of production volume required by an automobile manufacturer before 2030.

The tour of their laboratory is a far, far cry from a 500+ acre, $2B+ battery plant that would be required provide the volume needed for automobile use. They haven’t even started building a factory, which takes several years in the US. The agreement they inked in 2022 with Freyr to build a $2.6B factory in Georgia was cancelled in February 2025. This is likely because they haven’t solved the problem of large-scale production.

Their chemistry is a pretty mundane semi-solid state lithium ion. It’s been demonstrated in the laboratory, by multiple teams. And some manufacturers are even testing it for larger cells in small batches. One claims they’ve put one in a car, but there’s very little verifiable information about that test available. Nobody in the US has demonstrably solved the problem that all semi-solid in the US has struggled with: moving from laboratory to factory. It’s slightly more difficult to manufacture semi-solid in the lab compared with liquid electrolyte. It’s quite a bit more difficult to do so in a production environment. China has semi-solid that’s being field tested and some Chinese and Japanese auto manufacturers claim they will have it in their next generation (2026-2028) of vehicles. But it’s not realistically available in the US, especially with the trade war.

I would love to see semi-solid, and eventually solid state batteries here, but they will not be an option for Scout’s first couple of years.

 

[cyure]

There’s pretty-much-zero probability that 24M will be ready for any kind of production volume required by an automobile manufacturer before 2030.

The tour of their laboratory is a far, far cry from a 500+ acre, $2B+ battery plant that would be required provide the volume needed for automobile use. They haven’t even started building a factory, which takes several years in the US. The agreement they inked in 2022 with Freyr to build a $2.6B factory in Georgia was cancelled in February 2025. This is likely because they haven’t solved the problem of large-scale production.

Their chemistry is a pretty mundane semi-solid state lithium ion. It’s been demonstrated in the laboratory, by multiple teams. And some manufacturers are even testing it for larger cells in small batches. One claims they’ve put one in a car, but there’s very little verifiable information about that test available. Nobody in the US has demonstrably solved the problem that all semi-solid in the US has struggled with: moving from laboratory to factory. It’s slightly more difficult to manufacture semi-solid in the lab compared with liquid electrolyte. It’s quite a bit more difficult to do so in a production environment. China has semi-solid that’s being field tested and some Chinese and Japanese auto manufacturers claim they will have it in their next generation (2026-2028) of vehicles. But it’s not realistically available in the US, especially with the trade war.

I would love to see semi-solid, and eventually solid state batteries here, but they will not be an option for Scout’s first couple of years.

I know one of you guys would pop in and give a really good explanation.

 

[SeaGeo]

I'd be happy with them getting a silicone anode cell like from Group14.

 

[J Alynn]

I'd be happy with them getting a silicone anode cell like from Group14.

How many of those are being used in production vehicles? Haven’t heard of those so no idea about the specs. Any info on them to share? Thanks

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I'd be happy with them getting a silicone anode cell like from Group14.

I expect we’ll see silicone-graphite and then silicone anodes before we see solid state batteries in EVs.

I hope the promises the silicone anode companies are making come true. Rapid recharge rates (90 seconds for 0-100% for 2-5Ah cells) would reduce most people’s major complaint.

But they also seem to be perpetually “5 years away” from a workable solution to the major issues of silicone anodes, which include swelling, cracking, and a non-intentional chemical reactions that erode the anodes. Large-scale production isn’t solved either. A dozen different companies are working on solving these problems in interesting ways. I think it’s likely that only one or two of the proposed solutions will make it into production, but that’s all that’s needed. And the other innovations will be helpful for other anodes and battery types.

The problems that silicone anodes are having are similar to the problems that semi-solid and solid state is seeing: trying to force chemistry to happen at a very rapid rate makes it difficult to control. That causes the underlying structure to struggle to contain the chemistry and its heat.

How many of those are being used in production vehicles? Haven’t heard of those so no idea about the specs. Any info on them to share? Thanks

Lightning Motorcycles was promising a silicone-copper anode battery from Enevate, but they don’t seem to have made it to actual production vehicles yet. Enevate seems to claim they have partnered with all the big name battery manufacturers, but it’s not clear anyone is actually using their technology.

The biggest problem with all of these technologies is that we have something that works (NMC, LFP), so new technology needs to outperform (in the industrial sense) at an equal or better cost. And we’re just not seeing the performance promises make it into the field.

We will.

But not for the next generation of EVs that are being developed today.

 

[Chavannigans]

For what it’s worth, BYD (now the worlds largest manufacturer of EVs) is testing their own Solid State Batteries, and despite pouring billions into R&D and having the largest amount of resources….

They don’t expect to have them in production model until 2027 with limited production until 2029.

Mass production won’t begin until 2030.

BYD is testing solid-state EV batteries in its Seal sedan with nearly 1,200 miles of range

BYD has now begun testing solid-state EV batteries in its Tesla Model 3-rivalling Seal. Initial tests suggest that the total...

electrek.co

Do I want 932 miles of range in 12 minutes? You bet I do!

Am I willing to wait until a Gen 3 Scout to have it? Probably not.

When the current generation was announced all the specs met or exceeded my current needs better than anything else on the market. So I will still be happy with the current technology and not feel like I am missing out on anything in the meantime.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

For what it’s worth, BYD (now the worlds largest manufacturer of EVs) is testing their own Solid State Batteries, and despite pouring billions into R&D and having the largest amount of resources….

They don’t expect to have them in production model until 2027 with limited production until 2029.

Mass production won’t begin until 2030.

BYD is testing solid-state EV batteries in its Seal sedan with nearly 1,200 miles of range

BYD has now begun testing solid-state EV batteries in its Tesla Model 3-rivalling Seal. Initial tests suggest that the total...

electrek.co

Do I want 932 miles of range in 12 minutes? You bet I do!

Am I willing to wait until a Gen 3 Scout to have it? Probably not.

When the current generation was announced all the specs met or exceeded my current needs better than anything else on the market. So I will still be happy with the current technology and not feel like I am missing out on anything in the meantime.

I think we should consider China operating 20+ years ahead of us here in the US when it comes to EVs. The tech they’re testing and putting into production is the stuff our scientists and engineers are having fever dreams about and wondering if it’s possible.

We won’t see their best technology here until the ridiculous trade war is ended.

 

[SeaGeo]

How many of those are being used in production vehicles? Haven’t heard of those so no idea about the specs. Any info on them to share? Thanks

They have been putting the material for use as the anode in phones for a coupleif years. They have been building a plant in WA for large scale production in the U.S. but slowed construction this year to wait for customers apparently.

Group14's website has some good info. I posted a couple of linked in the next reply as well.

Honor's silicon battery tech makes the Magic 7 Pro stand out even more

Honor is using third-gen silicon tech in the battery of the Magic 7 Pro, and that's very exciting.

tech.yahoo.com

 

[SeaGeo]

I expect we’ll see silicone-graphite and then silicone anodes before we see solid state batteries in EVs.

I hope the promises the silicone anode companies are making come true. Rapid recharge rates (90 seconds for 0-100% for 2-5Ah cells) would reduce most people’s major complaint.

But they also seem to be perpetually “5 years away” from a workable solution to the major issues of silicone anodes, which include swelling, cracking, and a non-intentional chemical reactions that erode the anodes. Large-scale production isn’t solved either. A dozen different companies are working on solving these problems in interesting ways. I think it’s likely that only one or two of the proposed solutions will make it into production, but that’s all that’s needed. And the other innovations will be helpful for other anodes and battery types.

The problems that silicone anodes are having are similar to the problems that semi-solid and solid state is seeing: trying to force chemistry to happen at a very rapid rate makes it difficult to control. That causes the underlying structure to struggle to contain the chemistry and its heat.


Lightning Motorcycles was promising a silicone-copper anode battery from Enevate, but they don’t seem to have made it to actual production vehicles yet. Enevate seems to claim they have partnered with all the big name battery manufacturers, but it’s not clear anyone is actually using their technology.

The biggest problem with all of these technologies is that we have something that works (NMC, LFP), so new technology needs to outperform (in the industrial sense) at an equal or better cost. And we’re just not seeing the performance promises make it into the field.

We will.

But not for the next generation of EVs that are being developed today.

Group14's material is currently being used in devices (like the Honor Magic Pro), and they have supposedly addressed the issues you noted.

Obviously subject to manufacturers finding that it performs as advertised, but fingers crossed.

BASF and Group14 deliver silicon anode breakthrough for lithium-ion batteries - electrive.com

BASF and Group14 have unveiled a market-ready silicon anode solution capable of delivering nearly four times the capacity of graphite. Their drop-in

www.electrive.com

Group14 Delivers its Advanced Silicon Battery Material to Over 100 Customers Worldwide from an EV-Scale Factory

/PRNewswire/ -- Group14 Technologies, the world's largest global manufacturer and supplier of advanced silicon battery materials, today announced that it is...

www.prnewswire.com

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Group14's material is currently being used in devices (like the Honor Magic Pro), and they have supposedly addressed the issues you noted.

Obviously subject to manufacturers finding that it performs as advertised, but fingers crossed.

BASF and Group14 deliver silicon anode breakthrough for lithium-ion batteries - electrive.com

BASF and Group14 have unveiled a market-ready silicon anode solution capable of delivering nearly four times the capacity of graphite. Their drop-in

www.electrive.com

Group14 Delivers its Advanced Silicon Battery Material to Over 100 Customers Worldwide from an EV-Scale Factory

/PRNewswire/ -- Group14 Technologies, the world's largest global manufacturer and supplier of advanced silicon battery materials, today announced that it is...

www.prnewswire.com

They’ve delivered it to be tested by the battery manufacturers. Those anodes still have to go through qualifications of being useable in a battery module and then in a battery, even before they can be tested in a vehicle. They’re at the “here are some battery components for the battery manufacturer to test and qualify” stage, not “consumer market ready stage.” Their market is not the consumer, it’s the battery manufacturer, so claiming “market ready” is misleading when bringing the statement outside of the trade rags.

The anodes they’re delivering have about half the lifetime of NMC and 20% the lifetime of LFP. They need to deliver higher performance for lower cost to make it to the consumer market. Or they need to make a compelling case for why half the lifetime is good enough. I could make that case—500-1000 charge-recharge cycles is 10+ years battery lifetime, and most cars in the US are <12 years old—so I assume they will too, but in a time when consumers are still afraid of battery replacement costs, I think it can be a tough sell.

I do believe we’ll see silicone anodes in EVs. But I think it isn’t going to happen in the US in the next 5+ years. Same with semi-solid and with solid electrolyte (which the anodes will be able to work with, eventually).

I hope I’m wrong.

 

[dreamweaver]

They’ve delivered it to be tested by the battery manufacturers. Those anodes still have to go through qualifications of being useable in a battery module and then in a battery, even before they can be tested in a vehicle. They’re at the “here are some battery components for the battery manufacturer to test and qualify” stage, not “consumer market ready stage.” Their market is not the consumer, it’s the battery manufacturer, so claiming “market ready” is misleading when bringing the statement outside of the trade rags.

The anodes they’re delivering have about half the lifetime of NMC and 20% the lifetime of LFP. They need to deliver higher performance for lower cost to make it to the consumer market. Or they need to make a compelling case for why half the lifetime is good enough. I could make that case—500-1000 charge-recharge cycles is 10+ years battery lifetime, and most cars in the US are <12 years old—so I assume they will too, but in a time when consumers are still afraid of battery replacement costs, I think it can be a tough sell.

I do believe we’ll see silicone anodes in EVs. But I think it isn’t going to happen in the US in the next 5+ years. Same with semi-solid and with solid electrolyte (which the anodes will be able to work with, eventually).

I hope I’m wrong.

Unfortunately I think you are spot on. But, then I have something to look forward to in my second Scout.

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

Battery capacity specs haven't been finalized. With the shorter wheelbase, the Traveler is more limited in terms of volume available. That said, it will come down to a number of factors (density, chemistry, packaging, etc., etc.). The Terra has room to offer more, but like most manufacturers, we wrestle with how much battery we throw at this thing while trying to balance cost and weight. Merely throwing more battery at it isn't always the best solution. Let's see how things go between now and launch.

Oh, and our drag coefficient numbers are better than anyone expected. Tires have a big impact of course, but the core body is impressive in the wind tunnel.

Jamie

 

[dreamweaver]

Battery capacity specs haven't been finalized. With the shorter wheelbase, the Traveler is more limited in terms of volume available. That said, it will come down to a number of factors (density, chemistry, packaging, etc., etc.). The Terra has room to offer more, but like most manufacturers, we wrestle with how much battery we throw at this thing while trying to balance cost and weight. Merely throwing more battery at it isn't always the best solution. Let's see how things go between now and launch.

Oh, and our drag coefficient numbers are better than anyone expected. Tires have a big impact of course, but the core body is impressive in the wind tunnel.

Jamie

All good things . Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

 

[J Alynn]

Battery capacity specs haven't been finalized. With the shorter wheelbase, the Traveler is more limited in terms of volume available. That said, it will come down to a number of factors (density, chemistry, packaging, etc., etc.). The Terra has room to offer more, but like most manufacturers, we wrestle with how much battery we throw at this thing while trying to balance cost and weight. Merely throwing more battery at it isn't always the best solution. Let's see how things go between now and launch.

Oh, and our drag coefficient numbers are better than anyone expected. Tires have a big impact of course, but the core body is impressive in the wind tunnel.

Jamie

Always appreciate your insight when we start down rabbit holes on the “what-ifs”

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Oh, and our drag coefficient numbers are better than anyone expected. Tires have a big impact of course, but the core body is impressive in the wind tunnel.

Jamie

Even a 10% improvement over the common truck/SUV drag numbers would be a huge win.

The Lightning has a lot of drag in the underbody. I don’t know, but I bet a better underbody design could save 5-10% on its drag coefficient. For the Lightning Extended Range, 10% improvement in drag is 32-ish miles, which brings the range to 350 miles.

The tires on the concept models will be a major issue for drag/range, but if you offer a set of wheels and tires designed for range, it would be incredibly helpful to those consumers who want longer range and will be driving the vehicles mostly on-road or who will switch tires/wheels when they go on pavement road trips.

 

[cyure]

Even a 10% improvement over the common truck/SUV drag numbers would be a huge win.

The Lightning has a lot of drag in the underbody. I don’t know, but I bet a better underbody design could save 5-10% on its drag coefficient. For the Lightning Extended Range, 10% improvement in drag is 32-ish miles, which brings the range to 350 miles.

The tires on the concept models will be a major issue for drag/range, but if you offer a set of wheels and tires designed for range, it would be incredibly helpful to those consumers who want longer range and will be driving the vehicles mostly on-road or who will switch tires/wheels when they go on pavement road trips.

But Space as we have discussed the 35 wheel and tire combo is so cool!!! Again, pout pout.

 

[dreamweaver]

But Space as we have discussed the 35 wheel and tire combo is so cool!!! Again, pout pout.

Oh yes, yes they are.