Perhaps it has been discussed, and I have already forgotten. I know a lot of users are worried about cold weather performance. I am more worried about hot weather degradation. Older internet articles mentioned that 5 days over 90 a year could prematurely age a battery. Now more talk about 45C. We rarely hit that in the shade, but in the sun, easy. Plus most of the roads don't have much shade, localized temp over the roads could easily be over 50C often.
Has Scout mentioned anything about battery thermal management?
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Living in Florida I have been very concerned about this topic and have been reading up. Some studies suggest that for every 10°C (18°F) increase in operating temperature above the optimal range, battery degradation rates can roughly double. For instance, a battery at 50°C (122°F) may lose capacity 1.5–2 times faster than at 25°C (77°F). However, this varies by battery type (NMC vs. LFP, with LFP being more heat-tolerant). Manufacturers also design EVs with robust thermal management, and many allow preconditioning (cooling the battery before charging or driving). Owners can also minimize degradation by parking in shade, avoiding frequent fast charging in hot conditions, and maintaining moderate charge levels (20–80%).
I recall them noting that they were looking at a unique approach to something and thought it was for thermal management but I can’t recall any more.
outside of a few exceptions the ambient heat that you experience will not signficantly affect the cathode chemistry long term stability (these things are typically synthezied at tempereatures of >500C (almost 1000F). The larger issue the decrease in battery capacity and efficiency in cold (-20C) temperatures which can result in active material losses. Though as you mention many ev makers have figured they can use some heating elements to keep battery pack warm which results in a net positive effect.
No modern EV manufacturer will forget the lessons learned by Nissan with their non-thermally-managed batteries in the first generation of the Leaf. Nissan expected that the ambient temperatures were fine for battery health. But that’s simply not enough. The battery cells are in an enclosed, fully sealed container designed to keep road hazards away from the volatile cells. This also means that the heat generated by charging and discharging will be kept inside that enclosure for a longer time, increasing the temperatures of the cells. It also means that in the very cold, the battery cannot be kept warm enough to safely operate. Thermal management is necessary for both hot and cold environments.
Scout is probably not talking about it because it’s a given. Just like they’re using copper for the most important pieces of power transfer. Or that they’ll have a high voltage junction box with contactors that open and close when necessary to engage the battery.
What specific kind of thermal management Scout will use is unclear, but the standard is to have a “coolant" similar or identical to what’s used in ICE thermal management (so-called “anti-freeze”) pumped through a heat exchanger, through the battery and in parallel through the motors and other thermally-sensitive components like the inverters. The heat exchanger is managed by a heat pump that heats or cools the “coolant” to keep the battery and motors as close to an ideal temperature as possible. The specifics are usually proprietary to the manufacturer.
Some vehicles (the older Mustang Mach-E is an example) did not have a heat pump for mitigating the low temperatures of the battery in cold weather. Instead, they used a resistive heater. Resistive heaters are power-hungry for the amount of energy they transfer to their targets. Heat pumps are more efficient at moving energy to their targets. Many manufacturers have transitioned to using heat pumps.
Scout is probably not talking about it because it’s a given. Just like they’re using copper for the most important pieces of power transfer. Or that they’ll have a high voltage junction box with contactors that open and close when necessary to engage the battery.
What specific kind of thermal management Scout will use is unclear, but the standard is to have a “coolant" similar or identical to what’s used in ICE thermal management (so-called “anti-freeze”) pumped through a heat exchanger, through the battery and in parallel through the motors and other thermally-sensitive components like the inverters. The heat exchanger is managed by a heat pump that heats or cools the “coolant” to keep the battery and motors as close to an ideal temperature as possible. The specifics are usually proprietary to the manufacturer.
Some vehicles (the older Mustang Mach-E is an example) did not have a heat pump for mitigating the low temperatures of the battery in cold weather. Instead, they used a resistive heater. Resistive heaters are power-hungry for the amount of energy they transfer to their targets. Heat pumps are more efficient at moving energy to their targets. Many manufacturers have transitioned to using heat pumps.
Do you know if the heat exchangers are usually integrated into the battery or are they typically a little standalone module?
The heat exchanger itself almost certainly will be a separate module, likely under the frunk of the Scouts.
It will very likely look like a traditional vehicle radiator, with input and output ports. The battery will typically have channels for the coolant to flow around the cells. That coolant is either warm to heat the battery or cold to cool the battery. The heat pump, which is being used to chill or heat the coolant will be in that loop somewhere.
This is very much akin to the heating/cooling system on an ICE, but instead of being pushed through channels in the engine block, the coolant is pushed through channels in the motors and battery. And in very cold and very hot conditions they need to use a condenser/compressor to achieve the levels of heat exchange required.
As far as I know, yes, most do, but the motors themselves are oil cooled, at least the ones I’ve investigated. I haven’t looked in detail at how the heat is transferred from the motors to the cooling fluid. Probably another heat exchange unit.
I found a flow diagram that appeared to show the drive units in the temperature management system.Thanks for the verification.
One more thing: the battery and the motors likely run at different ideal temperatures, so while they may be using essentially the same or similar loops, there may be modules that have the temperatures slightly differently. I'm not terribly familiar with the thermal management specifics, especially of the motors.
Thermal management of batteries are indeed table stakes these days. That is why EV batteries last much longer than the batteries in your laptop, phone, weedeater, etc. Any time spent above 40C (104F) causes permanent degradation of Li-Ion batteries.
When it comes to efficiency, I don't know of anyone that has met or exceeded Tesla's Octo-valve. It allows them to move heat from anywhere (battery, motors, inverters, cabin, outside, etc) to anywhere. It's quite a marvel for thermal management. Here's a short video on it:
When it comes to efficiency, I don't know of anyone that has met or exceeded Tesla's Octo-valve. It allows them to move heat from anywhere (battery, motors, inverters, cabin, outside, etc) to anywhere. It's quite a marvel for thermal management. Here's a short video on it:
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