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It’s like every day. It’s okay Jamie. My reservation time is coming to an end, along with being on here.
I am sure everyone here agrees that you and everyone else that wants to be here is welcome.

Just dont be surprised when people match your energy or occasionally disagree with things you may say.


Several members here have called me out when I am wrong, and I was able to learn a lot from those experiences. You can too.

But if you feel parting ways is the best path forward for you, I wish you the best of luck.
 
Regarding service... I hope Scout has a very large budget for training technicians, especially independent techs and shops who can both do basic repairs of Scout vehicles, and can also do warranty work. And I hope that they’ll fund that warranty work well enough to attract skilled technicians.

 
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Regarding service... I hope Scout has a very large budget for training technicians, especially independent techs and shops who can both do basic repairs of Scout vehicles, but can also do warranty work. And I hope that they’ll fund that warranty work well enough to attract skilled technicians.

The whole workforce is short is in every blue collar industry, because everyone wants to have a white collar job. Personally fk white collar jobs, blue collar jobs is what keeps the world spinning.

Because everyone knows no guy or gal that has a white collar job has ever started wrenching on their cars, plumbing their house, running electric, laying bricks and cement, etc.

People need to start doing the less glamorous jobs in life. Main reason I'm training to go into automotive technology and then i will work at other car dealers until Scout starts opening service centers. Where i will hop over to Scout.
 
The whole workforce is short is in every blue collar industry, because everyone wants to have a white collar job. Personally fk white collar jobs, blue collar jobs is what keeps the world spinning.

Because everyone knows no guy or gal that has a white collar job has ever started wrenching on their cars, plumbing their house, running electric, laying bricks and cement, etc.

People need to start doing the less glamorous jobs in life. Main reason I'm training to go into automotive technology and then i will work at other car dealers until Scout starts opening service centers. Where i will hop over to Scout.
Now why be rude to people?

I’m a scientist which I believe counts as white collar.

I have:
Installed the new sink in my kitchen
Tiled the kitchen backsplash
Replumbed the bathroom and kitchen
Replaced two toilets
Re-wired the laundry room so I could relocate the dryer
Built a set of cubbies in the mudroom
Built a set of built-in bookshelves in the den
Built freestanding shelves in the pantry
Painted almost every non-log wall in my house
Built a loft bed for my daughter
And I’m in the process of building a cabinet in my daughter’s room
(All built from lumber, not kits)

And I’m not even close to the most handy person I’ve worked with so I don’t think your generalization works very well
 
Now why be rude to people?

I’m a scientist which I believe counts as white collar.

I have:
Installed the new sink in my kitchen
Tiled the kitchen backsplash
Replumbed the bathroom and kitchen
Replaced two toilets
Re-wired the laundry room so I could relocate the dryer
Built a set of cubbies in the mudroom
Built a set of built-in bookshelves in the den
Built freestanding shelves in the pantry
Painted almost every non-log wall in my house
Built a loft bed for my daughter
And I’m in the process of building a cabinet in my daughter’s room
(All built from lumber, not kits)

And I’m not even close to the most handy person I’ve worked with so I don’t think your generalization works very well

I am also a scientist—20 years of research and development.
I grew up in poverty and learned to do everything myself. I mean everything.
I’ve built stick-built houses.
I’ve built brick houses.
I’ve built adobe houses.
I’ve built concrete houses.
I’ve plumbed all of those houses.
I’ve done the electrical for houses.
I’ve rebuilt innumerable automobiles from junkers left to rot in the junkyard.
I rebuilt my first V8 when I was 8, to install into a Scout II.
I’ve poured concrete.
I’ve welded structures while hanging from a harness 40 feet above the ground.
I’ve repaired water pumping windmills.
I’ve installed off-grid power systems.
I’ve cleaned up dog poo at a dog kennel
I’ve trained horses.
I’ve milked goats and cows.
I’ve slaughtered swine.
I’ve plucked chickens.
I’ve planted and harvested a dozen different crops, from corn to wheat to watermelons.
I’ve repaired sensitive electronics.
I’ve designed new electronics to replace broken instruments in the field.
I’ve programmed everything from a 1980s robot to complex computer systems interacting with flying spacecraft.
I’ve...

Whatever. No amount of demonstration of skills will convince someone who wants to have an enemy.

The idea that there’s a “white collar” and a “blue collar” type of job or person is perpetuated by billionaires who want to have the poor and middle class fighting each other instead of fixing the system.

The reason automotive technician jobs are sitting empty has nothing to do with white collar jobs. It’s because the multi-billion-dollar companies have stopped paying a decent wage, have destroyed unions, and have convinced the "blue collar" job-holders that it’s the "white collar" job-holders’ fault.
 
The whole workforce is short is in every blue collar industry, because everyone wants to have a white collar job. Personally fk white collar jobs, blue collar jobs is what keeps the world spinning.

Because everyone knows no guy or gal that has a white collar job has ever started wrenching on their cars, plumbing their house, running electric, laying bricks and cement, etc.

People need to start doing the less glamorous jobs in life. Main reason I'm training to go into automotive technology and then i will work at other car dealers until Scout starts opening service centers. Where i will hop over to Scout.
I’ll bite. Without sounding arrogant, I’m an architect, if architects didn’t do their “white collar” jobs a lot of the blue collar jobs you listed would have a hard time getting things done without a lot of questions. Historically, architects used to design and build what they designed. As the world became more technical their skills needed to evolve to “white collar”. While I may not know how to quickly break down or rebuild an engine I can plumb a house (I’ve been an employed plumbers apprentice), I can wire and know most skills required to build a house so I agree with others and @SpaceEVDriver is exactly right. I took lots of tech classes in HS and while I considered constructionI chose architecture because I love to design. When I started working professionally in 1996 architecture was THE most underpaid profession in the U.S.-it’s not always better pay. I have liability concerns to pay insurance for yet another real estate agent can make the same fee selling the completed house I’m liable for for 8 years and not even have a degree (not a knock by the way-just reality) so sometimes passion trumps the color of the top of your shirt
 
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The whole workforce is short is in every blue collar industry, because everyone wants to have a white collar job. Personally fk white collar jobs, blue collar jobs is what keeps the world spinning.

Because everyone knows no guy or gal that has a white collar job has ever started wrenching on their cars, plumbing their house, running electric, laying bricks and cement, etc.

People need to start doing the less glamorous jobs in life. Main reason I'm training to go into automotive technology and then i will work at other car dealers until Scout starts opening service centers. Where i will hop over to Scout.

I think there needs to be a distinction between out of touch executives and upper middle class "white collar" folks. Because they certainly arent the same. They have very different standards of living, and very different problems.

If the professors at my University quit, I wont have my blue collar job anymore, because its my job to support them and the students that they serve.

I wouldnt want Bob from Bob's Plumbing to do the eye surgeries my oldest son has needed after being born with a cataract.

I also wouldnt want my dentist rebuilding my transmission or installing floors in my home.

We all bring something to the table that keeps our society moving.

There are a lot of people between us and the people at the top, but I at least commend you for looking in the right direction.
 
Good for all of us here, but the standard white collar worker, doesn’t know these skills. Trust me…
How is it that you, the self-admitted non-white-collar worker, knows more about what white collar workers can and can’t do than the actual white collar workers here who know and work with a whole bunch of other white collar workers? I don’t think I will trust you.
 
How is it that you, the self-admitted non-white-collar worker, knows more about what white collar workers can and can’t do than the actual white collar workers here who know and work with a whole bunch of other white collar workers? I don’t think I will trust you.
I work in construction everyday after school. And almost 99% of our clients are white collar workers that when we explain to them stuff they look at us with total confusion. And even friend who work for different companies have said the same.
 
I work in construction everyday after school. And almost 99% of our clients are white collar workers that when we explain to them stuff they look at us with total confusion. And even friend who work for different companies have said the same.
We still outnumber that. Also consider that the white collar workers who would understand what you’re talking about might not be hiring you to do it for them. Your sample selection is biased.
 
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The whole workforce is short is in every blue collar industry, because everyone wants to have a white collar job. Personally fk white collar jobs, blue collar jobs is what keeps the world spinning.

Because everyone knows no guy or gal that has a white collar job has ever started wrenching on their cars, plumbing their house, running electric, laying bricks and cement, etc.

People need to start doing the less glamorous jobs in life. Main reason I'm training to go into automotive technology and then i will work at other car dealers until Scout starts opening service centers. Where i will hop over to Scout.

I understand the sentiment, to an extent. But I think its an over-generalization of stereotypes.

I'll freely admit that I could/should do more DIY stuff. Particularly the stuff in the "trades", as I didn't get much exposure to them growing up. But I did work window washing, Landscaping, AC repair, and concrete work before college. And grew up wrenching on vehicles, and doing home repair stuff with my dad. But compared to a lot of the guys above, I don't have the same level of chops.

After college I worked in Silicon Valley. And it was a culture shock. The nearest auto parts store was like 15 miles away (no one locally wrenched it seemed, as most people were leasing new vehicles). And I had a co-worker who was all flustered because he had a flat tire, and "his parents AAA didn't actually include him like he thought it did". Having to show him that his vehicle did in fact have a spare tire, and what a jack was, and how to change it was "enlightening" (disappointing). I also worked as mentor to a youth group in the bay area, and went to an Eagle Scout project, where I had to teach 5 of the 17-18 yr old boys, how to use a tape measure. I died a little inside when that happened.

I feel like some of it, is the push for "everyone should go to college" and "you have to go to college to have a good career" that we've seen for the past 30years at least.

I have worked with youth groups (the 15-18yr old boys) for over 10 years now. And I try to make it pretty clear that yes, college is a great place to go to help get a good job. But it is not the ONLY way. Nothing wrong with being an electrician, or Mechanic, or anything else if you are passionate about, as the trades can/do make good money as well.

As a side note, I do stuff myself partially for the money savings, but also for the joy of learning to do something myself (I love learning new skills).

But, everyone has finite time. And I can totally understand why many people with means, don't choose to do things themselves. The difference is at some points in my life, I didn't have any choice. I was manually re-timing engines in a parking lot at college at night in January (12f and snowing) not because I wanted to, but because I had to.

At the moment, I've got a bit of a choice between "do I have to do do this myself because money is tight" and "spend the money to have someone who knows that they're doing do this". And I can see the appeal of both. Partially because, any time I spend wrenching, is time away from the family (I've started doing some stuff with the kids, like oil changes and tire rotations, and basic carpentry stuff, but the bigger things I've usually done without them, or while they're asleep).

Anyway, ramble ramble. Life is complicated. But I'd bet that you'd find a lot of crossover between both white collar people who get their hands dirty on their off time, and blue collar people who are really into finance/programing/whatever.
 
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I understand the sentiment, to an extent. But I think its an over-generalization of stereotypes.

I'll freely admit that I could/should do more DIY stuff. Particularly the stuff in the "trades", as I didn't get much exposure to them growing up. But I did work window washing, Landscaping, AC repair, and concrete work before college. And grew up wrenching on vehicles, and doing home repair stuff with my dad. But compared to a lot of the guys above, I don't have the same level of chops.

After college I worked in Silicon Valley. And it was a culture shock. The nearest auto parts store was like 15 miles away (no one locally wrenched it seemed, as most people were leasing new vehicles). And I had a co-worker who was all flustered because he had a flat tire, and "his parents AAA didn't actually include him like he thought it did". Having to show him that his vehicle did in fact have a spare tire, and what a jack was, and how to change it was "enlightening" (disappointing). I also worked as mentor to a youth group in the bay area, and went to an Eagle Scout project, where I had to teach 5 of the 17-18 yr old boys, how to use a tape measure. I died a little inside when that happened.

I feel like some of it, is the push for "everyone should go to college" and "you have to go to college to have a good career" that we've seen for the past 30years at least.

I have worked with youth groups (the 15-18yr old boys) for over 10 years now. And I try to make it pretty clear that yes, college is a great place to go to help get a good job. But it is not the ONLY way. Nothing wrong with being an electrician, or Mechanic, or anything else if you are passionate about, as the trades can/do make good money as well.

As a side note, I do stuff myself partially for the money savings, but also for the joy of learning to do something myself (I love learning new skills).

But, everyone has finite time. And I can totally understand why many people with means, don't choose to do things themselves. The difference is at some points in my life, I didn't have any choice. I was manually re-timing engines in a parking lot at college at night in January (12f and snowing) not because I wanted to, but because I had to.

At the moment, I've got a bit of a choice between "do I have to do do this myself because money is tight" and "spend the money to have someone who knows that they're doing do this". And I can see the appeal of both. Partially because, any time I spend wrenching, is time away from the family (I've started doing some stuff with the kids, like oil changes and tire rotations, and basic carpentry stuff, but the bigger things I've usually done without them, or while they're asleep).

Anyway, ramble ramble. Life is complicated. But I'd bet that you'd find a lot of crossover between both white collar people who get their hands dirty on their off time, and blue collar people who are really into finance/programing/whatever.
And I agree with 75% of your statement.

Actually up that to 85%.
 
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We still outnumber that. Also consider that the white collar workers who would understand what you’re talking about might not be hiring you to do it for them. Your sample selection is biased.
white-collar work making up approximately 60% or more of the U.S. workforce compared to the roughly 27%

Sad numbers right there. Luckily in the next 4 years that will switch, with the way the workforce is changing.


 
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And I agree with 75% of your statement.
Hey, thats a passing grade. I'll take it :).

FWIW, I really struggle to get people to do things for me. It feels like I'm "cutting corners on my man card" any time I pay someone else to do things for me.

I think part of the struggle is that my self image involves being "capable of doing things". And anytime I can't do something for myself, it pokes holes in my self identity, and I struggle.

The most recent was when I had a transmission repair shop fix the transmission in my 1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee. I didn't have the knowledge (engines I know, auto transmissions are black boxes to my brain), the time, or the equipment (I don't have a transmission jack or a vehicle lift). That one hurt to pay for.

I won't claim that all white collar folk are doing as much as blue collar folk are with their hands (even just comparing off-work hours). But saying that "no white collar workers do things with their hands" is a bit of a strong statement.

But the stereotype is there, and has to come from somewhere.

And I must say that at my desk at work (when I went to the office) I had a piston/connecting rod from a top fuel dragster on my desk as "artwork" (my uncle is a crew chief, and has been drag racing/pitting/etc since the 1980's). I also kept an old water pump around as a pen-holder. And the number of people that didn't know what that was, gave me a giggle (honestly thats why I kept it there. I could quickly weed out who were "my people" based on their reaction :D).


Sort of like how BMI is a bad way of determining if a single person is overweight or muscular. But on whole populations, its usually fairly accurate.
 
Hey, thats a passing grade. I'll take it :).

FWIW, I really struggle to get people to do things for me. It feels like I'm "cutting corners on my man card" any time I pay someone else to do things for me.

I think part of the struggle is that my self image involves being "capable of doing things". And anytime I can't do something for myself, it pokes holes in my self identity, and I struggle.

The most recent was when I had a transmission repair shop fix the transmission in my 1997 Jeep Grand Cherokee. I didn't have the knowledge (engines I know, auto transmissions are black boxes to my brain), the time, or the equipment (I don't have a transmission jack or a vehicle lift). That one hurt to pay for.

I won't claim that all white collar folk are doing as much as blue collar folk are with their hands (even just comparing off-work hours). But saying that "no white collar workers do things with their hands" is a bit of a strong statement.

But the stereotype is there, and has to come from somewhere.

And I must say that at my desk at work (when I went to the office) I had a piston/connecting rod from a top fuel dragster on my desk as "artwork" (my uncle is a crew chief, and has been drag racing/pitting/etc since the 1980's). I also kept an old water pump around as a pen-holder. And the number of people that didn't know what that was, gave me a giggle (honestly thats why I kept it there. I could quickly weed out who were "my people" based on their reaction :D).


Sort of like how BMI is a bad way of determining if a single person is overweight or muscular. But on whole populations, its usually fairly accurate.
Just had a lesson on transmissions. They are like a black hole. It takes a special breed of tradesman to work on them.
 
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Regarding service... I hope Scout has a very large budget for training technicians, especially independent techs and shops who can both do basic repairs of Scout vehicles, and can also do warranty work. And I hope that they’ll fund that warranty work well enough to attract skilled technicians.

So very important!
 
white-collar work making up approximately 60% or more of the U.S. workforce compared to the roughly 27%

Sad numbers right there. Luckily in the next 4 years that will switch, with the way the workforce is changing.


Again you’ve changed the topic of discussion. I was saying that the number of white collar workers that the white collar workers on here all know in total is more than the number you and your friends encounter through work.

Those two articles are about the same survey which is interesting but seems to be saying that right now a lot of people are worried about their jobs and see the trades as being potentially more stable. Whether that’s true or it’s a grass is always greener situation. I’m not sure. Either way that doesn’t say anything about the number of white collar workers who can do blue collar type work. If anything it might make you think that at least 60% of them can because they’re considering jumping to blue collar for the right job.