Ev Delay

[BartMan Terra Total EV]

In general a WDH is needed if the weight of the trailer is more than about 50% of the GVWR of the tow vehicle.

In practice, for a light duty truck like the Lightning or Terra, they'll say you must use a WDH when the trailer weighs more than 5k pounds.

Example: ALL F-150s have a maximum trailer tongue weight of 500 pounds and a tow capacity of 5000 pounds on the built-in hitch. My Lightning has a rating of ~900 pounds tongue and ~9k pounds towing if I use a WDH.

View attachment 11598

My *guess* is that the 5000 pound number that Scott Keogh said when taking to Leno and had everyone freaking out is because he saw a preliminary data sheet with a maximum tow rating without a WDH. Both the Terra and the Traveler in both BEV and Harvester configurations will be limited to 5000 pounds without a WDH.

This is very interesting. I had no idea the tow rating and tongue weight capacity were so low on the Ford 150 without a WDH. In the smaller off road world trailer WDH cannot be used with articulating hitchs. Some of these off road trailers with articulating hitch carry a tounge weight of 900 to 1,100 pounds. So many folks are over capacity. Do you have any idea what the towing specs with and without a wdh on the latest model Rivians and Chevy trucks are?

 

[TigerEyeJazz]

Couple of additional points to mention (at this stage).

A very early cutaway/rendered image we showed had the gas tank up front. We have since moved it under the rear seat area (like typical vehicles) and that allows us to move the batteries to the front for better weight distribution as they are heavier than even the full tank of fuel and engine/generator. While weight distribution is always something we look at, cooling and load under heat and stress is what ultimately affect the tow ratings. The Davis Dam test is a grueling, high-grade, extreme-heat test, and one of the biggest reasons big front grills and giant radiators have become so prevalent on modern pickup trucks.

We have made good progress on our Harvester EREV development. Let's see how things turn out.

That’s awesome! Love the idea of moving battery forward to put the tank under the seat. Can’t wait to see the full production versions

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

This is very interesting. I had no idea the tow rating and tongue weight capacity were so low on the Ford 150 without a WDH. In the smaller off road world trailer WDH cannot be used with articulating hitchs. Some of these off road trailers with articulating hitch carry a tounge weight of 900 to 1,100 pounds. So many folks are over capacity. Do you have any idea what the towing specs with and without a wdh on the latest model Rivians and Chevy trucks are?

This is another really big point that pains our engineers all the time. People don't read the manual and heed all the caveats and requirements for towing. They just hitch something up and take off.

 

[cyure]

This is another really big point that pains our engineers all the time. People don't read the manual and heed all the caveats and requirements for towing. They just hitch something up and take off.

It’s more exciting that way. (I have never towed anything and don’t plan on it, but I do watch the videos when towing goes horribly wrong. )

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

This is another really big point that pains our engineers all the time. People don't read the manual and heed all the caveats and requirements for towing. They just hitch something up and take off.

THIS!!!

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

This is very interesting. I had no idea the tow rating and tongue weight capacity were so low on the Ford 150 without a WDH. In the smaller off road world trailer WDH cannot be used with articulating hitchs. Some of these off road trailers with articulating hitch carry a tounge weight of 900 to 1,100 pounds. So many folks are over capacity. Do you have any idea what the towing specs with and without a wdh on the latest model Rivians and Chevy trucks are?

They are the same.

Rivian is responsible and has a TW of 500 pounds and towing of 5000 pounds without a WDH.

Chevrolet apparently doesn’t care about other people on the road and uses 12% instead of 10% so their advertised tongue limit is 600 pounds and 5000 pounds towing without a WDH. That’s within the range allowed, but it’s irresponsible, IMO.

But it doesn’t really matter that Chevy is irresponsible because even more irresponsible people hitch up 2000 pound tongues to their bumpers without a WDH and don’t care who else they endanger.


Sorry for the rant. Bad towing really, really gets to me—I knew someone who was killed by an irresponsible tower.

 

[BartMan Terra Total EV]

This is another really big point that pains our engineers all the time. People don't read the manual and heed all the caveats and requirements for towing. They just hitch something up and take off.

Jaime your are so correct. I think a lot of folks that are disappointed about the towing capacity of the Harvester models just do not realize that they really need a 3/4 ton truck to pull thier heavy boats. Cars or trailers. To my knowledge non of the EV trucks on the market are 3/4 ton. This is why I kept my off road trailer at 4,000 pounds loaded.

 

[BartMan Terra Total EV]

They are the same.

Rivian is responsible and has a TW of 500 pounds and towing of 5000 pounds without a WDH.

Chevrolet apparently doesn’t care about other people on the road and uses 12% instead of 10% so their advertised tongue limit is 600 pounds and 5000 pounds towing without a WDH. That’s within the range allowed, but it’s irresponsible, IMO.

But it doesn’t really matter that Chevy is irresponsible because even more irresponsible people hitch up 2000 pound tongues to their bumpers without a WDH and don’t care who else they endanger.


Sorry for the rant. Bad towing really, really gets to me—I knew someone who was killed by an irresponsible tower.

I see it every fricking day out here in the wild west. Off and on road travel trailer dealers sell thier rigs and market thier rigs to folks who do not have the tongue weight capacity to handle said rigs. So even the Terra BEV will liklely not be able to handle trailers with articulating hitches and wdh over 500 pounds.

 

[maynard]

Since you put in a question mark, I'll answer the question.

It's "moment arm."

A “moment" is the product of a distance and force. In our case, the force is weight of the Harvest and the distance is how far aft of the rear axle is the center is mass of the Harvester genset mounted.

Thanks!

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Couple of additional points to mention (at this stage).

A very early cutaway/rendered image we showed had the gas tank up front. We have since moved it under the rear seat area (like typical vehicles) and that allows us to move the batteries to the front for better weight distribution as they are heavier than even the full tank of fuel and engine/generator. While weight distribution is always something we look at, cooling and load under heat and stress is what ultimately affect the tow ratings. The Davis Dam test is a grueling, high-grade, extreme-heat test, and one of the biggest reasons big front grills and giant radiators have become so prevalent on modern pickup trucks.

We have made good progress on our Harvester EREV development. Let's see how things turn out.

Moving the battery forward some makes good sense.

Can you share whether the Harvester will have an additional, separate heat pump and cooling loop from the BEV?

It would make sense to me that it does, but if it doesn’t, that will further impact the towing capacity. How fun that the engineers get to play with the optimization problem of balancing the weight, size, and complexity of another cooling loop vs thermal management vs payload vs towing capacity!

(Yes, I do have a therapist, thanks for asking.)

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I see it every fricking day out here in the wild west. Off and on road travel trailer dealers sell thier rigs and market thier rigs to folks who do not have the tongue weight capacity to handle said rigs.

Yeah. I usually slow way down to avoid them because they’re also often the ones speeding along at 80-90 mph.

The solution is actually very easy: For on-highway/on-road, use a WDH. Once you get off-road, swap to an articulating hitch. At low speeds, the dangers are so much lower, especially to others.

So even the Terra BEV will liklely not be able to handle trailers with articulating hitches and wdh over 500 pounds.

A responsible limit for all of the Scouts would be a max of 500 pounds tongue, 5000 pounds towing without a WDH. And it will be up to the owners to carry that responsibility forward. I have no doubt that Scout will be responsible here.

 

[R1TVT]

Posting up Rivian Tow data straight from the source for R1S and R1T if it helps with any comparisons - these would ONLY be somewhat comparable to a PURE BEV Scout Terra or Traveler.

These would obviously not be comparable when considering the Harvester:

What is the maximum towing capacity?​

Gen 2 Vehicles

R1T Towing Capacity

• Dual-Motor AWD with Standard pack: 7,700 lb
• Dual-Motor AWD with Large pack: 7,700 lb
• Dual-Motor AWD with Max pack: 11,000 lb
• Tri-Motor AWD with Max pack: 11,000 lb

R1S Towing Capacity

• Dual-Motor AWD with Standard pack: 7,700 lb
• Dual-Motor AWD with Large pack: 7,700 lb
• Dual-Motor AWD with Max pack: 7,700 lb
• Tri-Motor AWD with Max pack: 7,700 lb

Gen 1 Vehicles

R1T Towing Capacity

• Dual-Motor AWD with Standard pack: 11,000 lb
• Dual-Motor AWD with Standard+ pack: 11,000 lb
• Dual-Motor AWD with Large pack: 11,000 lb
• Dual-Motor AWD with Max pack: 11,000 lb
• Quad-Motor AWD with Large pack: 11,000 lb

R1S Towing Capacity

• Dual-Motor AWD with Standard pack: 7,700 lb
• Dual-Motor AWD with Standard+ pack: 7,700 lb
• Dual-Motor AWD with Large pack: 7,700 lb
• Dual-Motor AWD with Max pack: 7,700 lb
• Quad-Motor AWD with Large pack: 7,700 lb

Limitations to this vary based on the type of hitch used. A weight distributing hitch is required to tow these weights. Without a weight distributing hitch, the towing limit for R1T and R1S is 5,000 lb (2267 kg).

 

[J Alynn]

Couple of additional points to mention (at this stage).

A very early cutaway/rendered image we showed had the gas tank up front. We have since moved it under the rear seat area (like typical vehicles) and that allows us to move the batteries to the front for better weight distribution as they are heavier than even the full tank of fuel and engine/generator. While weight distribution is always something we look at, cooling and load under heat and stress is what ultimately affect the tow ratings. The Davis Dam test is a grueling, high-grade, extreme-heat test, and one of the biggest reasons big front grills and giant radiators have become so prevalent on modern pickup trucks.

We have made good progress on our Harvester EREV development. Let's see how things turn out.

Thanks for the clarifications @Jamie@ScoutMotors

 

[BartMan Terra Total EV]

Yeah. I usually slow way down to avoid them because they’re also often the ones speeding along at 80-90 mph.

The solution is actually very easy: For on-highway/on-road, use a WDH. Once you get off-road, swap to an articulating hitch. At low speeds, the dangers are so much lower, especially to others.



A responsible limit for all of the Scouts would be a max of 500 pounds tongue, 5000 pounds towing without a WDH. And it will be up to the owners to carry that responsibility forward. I have no doubt that Scout will be responsible here.

Yes a lot more responsible. In all the information I have absorbed neither Rivian or Chevy have ever mentioned a reduction in capacity without a wdh. That is exactly what I have set up an articulating hitch for off-road and a standard hitch for highway high speed travel. My trailer is light enough that my road set up just has a sway bar. I hate dealing with wdh hitchs which is why I roll with light trailer. For some off road rigs it is a major modification to be able to run both set ups.

 

[BartMan Terra Total EV]

Posting up Rivian Tow data straight from the source for R1S and R1T if it helps with any comparisons - these would ONLY be somewhat comparable to a PURE BEV Scout Terra or Traveler.

These would obviously not be comparable when considering the Harvester:

What is the maximum towing capacity?​

Gen 2 Vehicles

R1T Towing Capacity

• Dual-Motor AWD with Standard pack: 7,700 lb
• Dual-Motor AWD with Large pack: 7,700 lb
• Dual-Motor AWD with Max pack: 11,000 lb
• Tri-Motor AWD with Max pack: 11,000 lb

R1S Towing Capacity

• Dual-Motor AWD with Standard pack: 7,700 lb
• Dual-Motor AWD with Large pack: 7,700 lb
• Dual-Motor AWD with Max pack: 7,700 lb
• Tri-Motor AWD with Max pack: 7,700 lb

Gen 1 Vehicles

R1T Towing Capacity

• Dual-Motor AWD with Standard pack: 11,000 lb
• Dual-Motor AWD with Standard+ pack: 11,000 lb
• Dual-Motor AWD with Large pack: 11,000 lb
• Dual-Motor AWD with Max pack: 11,000 lb
• Quad-Motor AWD with Large pack: 11,000 lb

R1S Towing Capacity

• Dual-Motor AWD with Standard pack: 7,700 lb
• Dual-Motor AWD with Standard+ pack: 7,700 lb
• Dual-Motor AWD with Large pack: 7,700 lb
• Dual-Motor AWD with Max pack: 7,700 lb
• Quad-Motor AWD with Large pack: 7,700 lb

Limitations to this vary based on the type of hitch used. A weight distributing hitch is required to tow these weights. Without a weight distributing hitch, the towing limit for R1T and R1S is 5,000 lb (2267 kg).

Thanks for this R1!

 

[Chuckles]

Couple of additional points to mention (at this stage).

A very early cutaway/rendered image we showed had the gas tank up front. We have since moved it under the rear seat area (like typical vehicles) and that allows us to move the batteries to the front for better weight distribution as they are heavier than even the full tank of fuel and engine/generator. While weight distribution is always something we look at, cooling and load under heat and stress is what ultimately affect the tow ratings. The Davis Dam test is a grueling, high-grade, extreme-heat test, and one of the biggest reasons big front grills and giant radiators have become so prevalent on modern pickup trucks.

We have made good progress on our Harvester EREV development. Let's see how things turn out.

With the gas tank moving near the rear seat, will the fuel filler door remain in the front like in the concept or also be moving?

 

[J Alynn]

With the gas tank moving near the rear seat, will the fuel filler door remain in the front like in the concept or also be moving?

Hope fuel moves to rear and charger port to front corner under the front turn signal indicator-similar in style to way the current rear one functions