E Axle Brand Poll

[THil08]

What E-Axle company do we feel Scout will come equipped with?

Dana- https://www.dana.com/e-beam

ZF- https://www.zf.com/products/en/cars/home/cars.html

Magna- https://www.magna.com/stories/article/2023/ebeam-a-smart-practical-solution-for-electrifying-trucks

Any other recommendations @ me in your reply.

 

[Hedrock]

I’d bet Dana. Interesting video of their ebeam on a jeep running Moab:

And a fun hint from Dana themselves last year. Nothing certain but:

Dana wins big electric pickup contract, profits from smoother production

Maumee-based Dana Inc. posted improved earnings and sales in the second quarter as customer production schedules smoothed out at the auto and heavy truck ...

www.toledoblade.com

My real question is - how much heavier is this than, say, a 3/4 ton pickup axle? I wonder how all the unsprung weight of the motor and locker will be managed, but I suppose if 3/4 tons can ride nicely Scout can get these tuned well.

 

[Hedrock]

Partially answered my own question, for the Magna variant at least (40lbs heavier):

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/magna-electric-heavy-duty-pickup-demonstrator-review

 

[LastDayScout]

I’d bet Dana. Interesting video of their ebeam on a jeep running Moab:

And a fun hint from Dana themselves last year. Nothing certain but:

Dana wins big electric pickup contract, profits from smoother production

Maumee-based Dana Inc. posted improved earnings and sales in the second quarter as customer production schedules smoothed out at the auto and heavy truck ...

www.toledoblade.com

My real question is - how much heavier is this than, say, a 3/4 ton pickup axle? I wonder how all the unsprung weight of the motor and locker will be managed, but I suppose if 3/4 tons can ride nicely Scout can get these tuned well.

I think and hope it is Dana for branding and historical ties. But, ZF makes top notch components.

 

[TreeKiller]

100% it will be Dana.

 

[Tyler88]

Dana would be good choice I have had no complaints with their axles on my wrangler

 

[J Alynn]

100% it will be Dana.

You know this for certain or maybe 94% . Would be ideal but what is someone has something very similar but is $2800 less. Gotta think that could change the outcome.

 

[oldgeeksguide]

Partially answered my own question, for the Magna variant at least (40lbs heavier):

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/magna-electric-heavy-duty-pickup-demonstrator-review

So, I’ve got a reasonably good grasp of physics, but admittedly no expertise on suspension or off roading. Could someone enlighten me about the tradeoffs between independent rear suspension vs solid axles in this context? That article also mentions leaf springs, I thought those went out with the model t?

 

[THil08]

So, I’ve got a reasonably good grasp of physics, but admittedly no expertise on suspension or off roading. Could someone enlighten me about the tradeoffs between independent rear suspension vs solid axles in this context? That article also mentions leaf springs, I thought those went out with the model t?

Leafspings. Lol. Nope almost every pickup truck has them. My 2018 chevy has them in the rear.

 

[Hedrock]

So, I’ve got a reasonably good grasp of physics, but admittedly no expertise on suspension or off roading. Could someone enlighten me about the tradeoffs between independent rear suspension vs solid axles in this context? That article also mentions leaf springs, I thought those went out with the model t?

Leaf springs are still around, mostly in 3/4-1 ton trucks and commercial applications. They’re super simple, durable and easy to make, but not the most fine tuned and don’t play well with independent suspension (meaning, you can have independent suspension up front and leafs on a solid axle in the back, but wouldn’t use them as the springs in the independent suspension). If you regularly throw thousands of pounds over the rear axle, using leafs instead of IRS means that suspension geometry is always correct whether loaded or unloaded or partially loaded (tires just track straight up and down, instead of in several dimensions through an arc).

Solid axle is durable and relatively simple compared to independently sprung wheels. It works better for situations that require extreme articulation (one wheel significantly higher or lower than the other). It is great for situations where you might carry a heavy load, but only sometimes (back of a truck for example). However, it has downsides for noise, vibration, and handling due to the fact it’s a big heavy steel beam running from one side to the other of the vehicle.

IRS will generally let engineers fine tune really well for NVH and is generally optimal (at least the way it’s implemented in passenger cars) for situations where you’ll always have sorta kinda the same amount of weight over the rear of the vehicle.

A good compromise for ride quality and offroad and/or payload capability is…IFS coupled with a solid rear axle. IFS makes the steering and road handling good, solid rear axle lets you flex out a bit more offroad or throw a bunch of weight in the back.

I suspect there are also packaging constraints (how much and what space the whole suspension and axle, etc) take up that make solid rear axles useful. With ICE vehicles, independent front suspension was handy because you could slap the whole engine and it’s associated accessories between the front tires at a lower height than if there was a big chunk of steel bouncing up and down between them.

 

[Hedrock]

I admittedly skimmed this, but should be a good and more in depth primer @oldgeeksguide :

https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/1703-axle-101-solid-reasoning-or-independent-thinking

 

[Hedrock]

Leafspings. Lol. Nope almost every pickup truck has them. My 2018 chevy has them in the rear.

Healthy mix these days, I think? Ram 1500 has coil rears, Tacoma and Ranger made the switch, and I think even the Ram 2500/3500 is on coils now.

Pretty sure the Ford and Chevy lines are all leafs in the back though. Maybe Frontier as well since it’s ancient.

Tells you which trucks are meant to carry heavy stuff…

 

[J Alynn]

Leaf springs are still around, mostly in 3/4-1 ton trucks and commercial applications. They’re super simple, durable and easy to make, but not the most fine tuned and don’t play well with independent suspension (meaning, you can have independent suspension up front and leafs on a solid axle in the back, but wouldn’t use them as the springs in the independent suspension). If you regularly throw thousands of pounds over the rear axle, using leafs instead of IRS means that suspension geometry is always correct whether loaded or unloaded or partially loaded (tires just track straight up and down, instead of in several dimensions through an arc).

Solid axle is durable and relatively simple compared to independently sprung wheels. It works better for situations that require extreme articulation (one wheel significantly higher or lower than the other). It is great for situations where you might carry a heavy load, but only sometimes (back of a truck for example). However, it has downsides for noise, vibration, and handling due to the fact it’s a big heavy steel beam running from one side to the other of the vehicle.

IRS will generally let engineers fine tune really well for NVH and is generally optimal (at least the way it’s implemented in passenger cars) for situations where you’ll always have sorta kinda the same amount of weight over the rear of the vehicle.

A good compromise for ride quality and offroad and/or payload capability is…IFS coupled with a solid rear axle. IFS makes the steering and road handling good, solid rear axle lets you flex out a bit more offroad or throw a bunch of weight in the back.

I suspect there are also packaging constraints (how much and what space the whole suspension and axle, etc) take up that make solid rear axles useful. With ICE vehicles, independent front suspension was handy because you could slap the whole engine and it’s associated accessories between the front tires at a lower height than if there was a big chunk of steel bouncing up and down between them.

Which is basically what Bronco did in an ICE application

 

[Hedrock]

Which is basically what Bronco did in an ICE application

And Ford did a fantastic job with it.

 

[J Alynn]

View attachment 6641
And Ford did a fantastic job with it.

Ride quality and handling-YES, quality-i got a bad one and dumped it and it makes me sad because it was a fun vehicle

 

[TreeKiller]

You know this for certain or maybe 94% . Would be ideal but what is someone has something very similar but is $2800 less. Gotta think that could change the outcome.

Haha. What I SHOULD have said: If I were a betting man, my money says that Dana will provide at least the rear axle.

 

[J Alynn]

Haha. What I SHOULD have said: If I were a betting man, my money says that Dana will provide at least the rear axle.

I think we’d all like it. I would have thought by now SM would’ve announced it which is why I question the manufacturer. The no brainer for everyone is Dana but since we haven’t heard I worry a bit

 

[Chavannigans]

Healthy mix these days, I think? Ram 1500 has coil rears, Tacoma and Ranger made the switch, and I think even the Ram 2500/3500 is on coils now.

Pretty sure the Ford and Chevy lines are all leafs in the back though. Maybe Frontier as well since it’s ancient.

Tells you which trucks are meant to carry heavy stuff…

Some Chevrolet trucks use PLASTIC leaf springs

 

[cyure]

Some Chevrolet trucks use PLASTIC leaf springs

Sorry, excuse me. What?

 

[Scoutsie]

Can someone explain why Dana axles are better than the others? Are other axles made out of beetle shells and armpit stains? Is this just the name people know? Why are theirs better than, say, a Magna or a ZF? If I didn’t have a Dana axle in my vehicle, should I put toilet water into the seller’s drink when they’ve not looking? Please explain to me like I am an idiot.