Don't let the Scout become a status symbol; why $60k misses the point of the Revival

[TaconicBear]

Designing a $30K highly capable midsized EV truck as an established OEM

Designing a $60K highly capable, off road-ready fullsized EV truck as a brand new OEM



Show me just 1 quote from Scout Motors where they indicated that they wanted to launch into a saturated "$60K luxury segment" LOL.

...I didn't think so.

Well, @R1TVT, maybe not a statement in words, but I doubt I'm alone in my observations. At last year's "Scout Nationals" SM displayed their offerings, mostly indoors, but outdoors as well. Indoors, we were kept at breathing distance, but the doors were flung wide and there was plenty of time to observe plenty of detail; outdoors, they were arrayed near our legacy Scouts and unavoidably near some of our other non-Scout vehicles. Inside, I was wowed by the completeness, thoughtfulness, and an aura closely approaching luxury. Outside, the Terra passed close by my Toyota Tundra snapping an instant revelation clear to my eyes, they were much the same.

 

[strider]

Outside, the Terra passed close by my Toyota Tundra snapping an instant revelation clear to my eyes, they were much the same.

I will admit to not knowing the Toyota trim hierarchy, but I just pulled up the configurator on their website and a 2026 Tundra Limited 4x4 with no other options is $60k. So it sounds like Scout is right where they need to be?

 

[tomgillotti]

Perfect example of an AI Fail, since there was no math involved.

Regardless, simply pointing out that you stated that "Scout insisted on launching into a saturated $60K luxury market" (when Scout never said that) is hardly "an attack". It's clarity for those reading this board. It's also factual. I would suggest you stick to the facts here and in other threads on this forum.

@R1TVT, I recognize that we are prioritizing different things: I am focused on the market data and the reality of the Scout rollout, while you are focused on the meta-discussion of how I format my thoughts.

You are free to label my posts however you like, but I have no interest in engaging with the writing process. My interest remains in the actual automotive market—specifically why a brand-new OEM is choosing a luxury pricing strategy while domestic and global competitors are aggressively pivoting toward affordability. If you ever care to discuss the pricing math or the corporate strategy, I’ll be here. Otherwise, I’m content to let the data stand on its own.

 

[tomgillotti]

I will admit to not knowing the Toyota trim hierarchy, but I just pulled up the configurator on their website and a 2026 Tundra Limited 4x4 with no other options is $60k. So it sounds like Scout is right where they need to be?

Regarding your comparison of the Scout to a 2026 Tundra Limited... this is a false equivalency. You are citing the Tundra's $60k price as if it justifies the Scout's pricing strategy, but that misses why the Tundra can command that price in the first place. Toyota has spent decades building a cult-like following that pays a premium for proven reliability, a global parts network, and a known long-term cost of ownership. That price tag reflects a verified, decades-old track record.

Scout has not earned that "reliability tax" yet. When you buy a Scout, you aren't paying for a Tundra’s legacy; you are paying to be an early adopter of a first-generation platform.

Furthermore, the mass-market audience that Scout is targeting is fundamentally different from the Toyota "cult" buyer. The Scout enthusiast isn't necessarily looking for a $60k++ luxury-spec cruiser; they are looking for the revival of a capable, utilitarian tool (Scout's own marketing, btw). By forcing the vehicle into a Tundra-level price bracket, Scout isn't appealing to the mass market; they are alienating the very people who wanted a modern, accessible utility vehicle. You can't capture a new market by assuming they will behave like Toyota loyalists.

 

[jeremydunworth]

In my industry we have saying "In god we trust, everyone else bring data". Here is some admittedly unvetted data

What a New Car Cost in 2001 vs. the Price of One Today

New car prices have skyrocketed. See how much the average vehicle cost in 2001 compares to today — and why cars feel less affordable now.

autos.yahoo.com

Hyundai Just Dropped the Price on the 2026 Ioniq 5 By Up to $9,800 As EV Tax Credit Ends - TFLcar

Hyundai just dropped prices on the 2026 Ioniq 5 EV by nearly $10K, just after the federal tax credit ended.

tflcar.com

https://www.abc27.com/automotive/2026-hyundai-ioniq-5-sales-surge-after-big-price-cuts/

I've also read about Hyundai's moves to secure sourcing, effectively use a combination of robots and human labor, and to build in the US thus avoiding tariffs for example:

Inside the Hyundai Metaplant, the World's Most Automated Car Factory

Hyundai's Metaplant uses AI and robots to create EVs with precision, aiming for 100% renewable energy by 2030.

spectrum.ieee.org

We also have another saying. "In the USA we print 'in god we trust' on the god we trust".

FWIW.

 

[strider]

Regarding your comparison of the Scout to a 2026 Tundra Limited... this is a false equivalency. You are citing the Tundra's $60k price as if it justifies the Scout's pricing strategy, but that misses why the Tundra can command that price in the first place. Toyota has spent decades building a cult-like following that pays a premium for proven reliability, a global parts network, and a known long-term cost of ownership. That price tag reflects a verified, decades-old track record.

Ok, I give up. You started this thread by complaining that automakers are deliberately overcharging truck buyers in order to pad their profits and now you are saying that $60k trucks are perfectly fine. I have now pushed the "Ignore" button on your profile. Good day sir.

 

[jeremydunworth]

In my industry we have saying "In god we trust, everyone else bring data". Here is some admittedly unvetted data

<delete links>

We also have another saying. "In the USA we print 'in god we trust' on the god we trust".

FWIW.

Also, in case you haven't looked, pay attention to what USED IH Scout IIs are selling for these days

Scout II

Browse and bid online for the chance to own a International Harvester Scout II at auction with Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online.

bringatrailer.com

 

[tomgillotti]

In my industry we have saying "In god we trust, everyone else bring data". Here is some admittedly unvetted data

What a New Car Cost in 2001 vs. the Price of One Today

New car prices have skyrocketed. See how much the average vehicle cost in 2001 compares to today — and why cars feel less affordable now.

autos.yahoo.com

Hyundai Just Dropped the Price on the 2026 Ioniq 5 By Up to $9,800 As EV Tax Credit Ends - TFLcar

Hyundai just dropped prices on the 2026 Ioniq 5 EV by nearly $10K, just after the federal tax credit ended.

tflcar.com

https://www.abc27.com/automotive/2026-hyundai-ioniq-5-sales-surge-after-big-price-cuts/

I've also read about Hyundai's moves to secure sourcing, effectively use a combination of robots and human labor, and to build in the US thus avoiding tariffs for example:

Inside the Hyundai Metaplant, the World's Most Automated Car Factory

Hyundai's Metaplant uses AI and robots to create EVs with precision, aiming for 100% renewable energy by 2030.

spectrum.ieee.org

We also have another saying. "In the USA we print 'in god we trust' on the god we trust".

FWIW.

@jeremydunworth, thank you for bringing actual, empirical data to this discussion. This is exactly the kind of evidence that cuts through the corporate talking points.

That first article completely dismantles the "it's just inflation" excuse. The data shows exactly what I have been arguing: while the buying power of the dollar has changed, the 139% spike in vehicle prices since 2001 is a direct result of automakers deliberately choosing to stock their showrooms with high-end, high-profit models. They aren't just passing along the cost of inflation; they are forcing feature creep to artificially pad their margins while entirely abandoning the affordable utility segment.

But your second link regarding the Hyundai Ioniq 5 price drop is the real smoking gun here. The fact that Hyundai could magically slash their MSRP by up to $9,800 almost overnight simply because the federal EV tax credit ended proves that these vehicle prices are heavily inflated. It exposes exactly what we have been saying: the current MSRPs of EVs aren't strictly dictated by the raw cost of batteries, steel, or manufacturing. They have massive profit margins baked right into the sticker price.

If a legacy automaker can carve nearly $10k out of a vehicle's base price just to maintain competitive pricing, it completely destroys the narrative that a brand new OEM like Scout has to set a $60,000 floor for a base model. They are choosing that $60k+ luxury price point because they want the luxury margins, not because the manufacturing math demands it.

 

[tomgillotti]

Ok, I give up. You started this thread by complaining that automakers are deliberately overcharging truck buyers in order to pad their profits and now you are saying that $60k trucks are perfectly fine. I have now pushed the "Ignore" button on your profile. Good day sir.

You said the same thing months ago... so, see you in a few months!?

 

[jeremydunworth]

@jeremydunworth, thank you for bringing actual, empirical data to this discussion. This is exactly the kind of evidence that cuts through the corporate talking points.

Ok I'll take the bait. Shame on me. But I will provide a link for each assertion I make.

That first article completely dismantles the "it's just inflation" excuse. The data shows exactly what I have been arguing: while the buying power of the dollar has changed, the 139% spike in vehicle prices since 2001 is a direct result of automakers deliberately choosing to stock their showrooms with high-end, high-profit models. They aren't just passing along the cost of inflation; they are forcing feature creep to artificially pad their margins while entirely abandoning the affordable utility segment.

Just as Milton Friedman would have it. Shareholders first! Everyone else doesn't count.

https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/big-myth-9781635573572/?__cf_chl_f_tk=CdGNpCC10WH8qGbFR2GHG4n2mpXFVlWrBh4DcDI_l8w-1782791202-1.0.1.1-dt4VftFxcqQwv_4aMiH4IhW08Dlo8gLRoyXX1L0cSZc

But your second link regarding the Hyundai Ioniq 5 price drop is the real smoking gun here. The fact that Hyundai could magically slash their MSRP by up to $9,800 almost overnight simply because the federal EV tax credit ended proves that these vehicle prices are heavily inflated. It exposes exactly what we have been saying: the current MSRPs of EVs aren't strictly dictated by the raw cost of batteries, steel, or manufacturing. They have massive profit margins baked right into the sticker price.

Meh, this just shows the government subsidy in the US was going 100% to Hyundai, and Hyundai chose to give up the subsidy and compete, despite all the B.S. they have to deal with in the USA because of the orange buffoon, because apparently they can see where the need to be in 2035, unlike Ford et al.

How an Immigration Raid Complicated America's Push for EV Manufacturing

Hyundai's Metaplant faces turmoil after a massive ICE raid disrupts its ambitious EV plans. What does this mean for the future of U.S. auto manufacturing?

spectrum.ieee.org

If a legacy automaker can carve nearly $10k out of a vehicle's base price just to maintain competitive pricing, it completely destroys the narrative that a brand new OEM like Scout has to set a $60,000 floor for a base model. They are choosing that $60k+ luxury price point because they want the luxury margins, not because the manufacturing math demands it.

I leased an Ioniq 5 for an acceptable deal for me. The sales price if I paid MSRP and took advantage of the best discount scheme I was advised of would have been around $46k. But the Ioniq 5 I figure is closer in size to a R2, it is a size down from the Traveler as best I can figure, and definitely less metal and space than the Terra.

Compare to the Cybertruck (barf, I have nothing positive to say about Tesla or it's CEO who has a funny way of saluting the crowd, reminds me of someone I've seen only in films), I believe it started out advertised as $40k, and when it finally went to production was over $100k to actually get one.
Price in 2026 $70k to $100k, and this is after it is widely known as the most embarassing vehicle to drive ever, even more than the Pontiax Aztec https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/cybertruck/
Initial advertised base model price was close to $40k: https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/how-much-is-tesla-cybertruck-cybertruck-pricing.html

Even discount "Musk Math" and "Musk Schedules" both of which are famously inaccurate, Rivian prices for the R1 are $73k to $122k : https://theweeklydriver.com/2026/04/rivian-2026-lineup-guide/
R2 is $48.5k to $58k (See same link)

My biggest problem with the Terra is not the extra $15k give or take to get a truck, it is the money I would need to spend to have a garage into which it fits. That is a me problem as a result of where I live. Anyway, I like hand crank windows, I have them in my '73 IH Scout II, and it fits in my garage.

You are not totally wrong about the price. It is also not a fight worth having. I hope Scout Motors is successful and I hope by 2033 they are mostly or fully BEV (no more harvester) and they have a model closer in size to the original Scout 80 or Scout II. And if not, I hope somebody is selling a kit so that I can convert and old sportscar to do this:

 

[tomgillotti]

Ok I'll take the bait. Shame on me. But I will provide a link for each assertion I make.

Just as Milton Friedman would have it. Shareholders first! Everyone else doesn't count.

https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/big-myth-9781635573572/?__cf_chl_f_tk=CdGNpCC10WH8qGbFR2GHG4n2mpXFVlWrBh4DcDI_l8w-1782791202-1.0.1.1-dt4VftFxcqQwv_4aMiH4IhW08Dlo8gLRoyXX1L0cSZc

Meh, this just shows the government subsidy in the US was going 100% to Hyundai, and Hyundai chose to give up the subsidy and compete, despite all the B.S. they have to deal with in the USA because of the orange buffoon, because apparently they can see where the need to be in 2035, unlike Ford et al.

How an Immigration Raid Complicated America's Push for EV Manufacturing

Hyundai's Metaplant faces turmoil after a massive ICE raid disrupts its ambitious EV plans. What does this mean for the future of U.S. auto manufacturing?

spectrum.ieee.org

I leased an Ioniq 5 for an acceptable deal for me. The sales price if I paid MSRP and took advantage of the best discount scheme I was advised of would have been around $46k. But the Ioniq 5 I figure is closer in size to a R2, it is a size down from the Traveler as best I can figure, and definitely less metal and space than the Terra.

Compare to the Cybertruck (barf, I have nothing positive to say about Tesla or it's CEO who has a funny way of saluting the crowd, reminds me of someone I've seen only in films), I believe it started out advertised as $40k, and when it finally went to production was over $100k to actually get one.
Price in 2026 $70k to $100k, and this is after it is widely known as the most embarassing vehicle to drive ever, even more than the Pontiax Aztec https://www.edmunds.com/tesla/cybertruck/
Initial advertised base model price was close to $40k: https://www.edmunds.com/car-news/how-much-is-tesla-cybertruck-cybertruck-pricing.html

Even discount "Musk Math" and "Musk Schedules" both of which are famously inaccurate, Rivian prices for the R1 are $73k to $122k : https://theweeklydriver.com/2026/04/rivian-2026-lineup-guide/
R2 is $48.5k to $58k (See same link)

My biggest problem with the Terra is not the extra $15k give or take to get a truck, it is the money I would need to spend to have a garage into which it fits. That is a me problem as a result of where I live. Anyway, I like hand crank windows, I have them in my '73 IH Scout II, and it fits in my garage.

You are not totally wrong about the price. It is also not a fight worth having. I hope Scout Motors is successful and I hope by 2033 they are mostly or fully BEV (no more harvester) and they have a model closer in size to the original Scout 80 or Scout II. And if not, I hope somebody is selling a kit so that I can convert and old sportscar to do this:

@jeremydunworth, I want to be sure I didn't mis-speak: my "thank you" in the last post was 100% genuine, no sarcasm intended. I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to highlight actual data.

Your points are valid. The Ioniq 5 situation is a perfect example of how subsidies and margins get played by the manufacturers—when the federal money dried up, Hyundai magically found the room to cut prices to stay competitive, ultimately bringing your negotiated MSRP down to around $46,000 (still expensive for what it is, but not the point). And your breakdown of the Rivian R2 pricing, landing between $48,500 and $58,000, perfectly highlights the exact window of affordability that I am wishing Scout would target. It proves that capable, accessible EVs are possible without immediately hitting Cybertruck prices over $100k (and, to clarify, no, I am not comparing to the R2 — just the price point).

As you pointed out, we ultimately just want Scout Motors to be successful. I simply want them to be accessible to a broader, working-class market, rather than strictly chasing luxury margins from day one.

Thanks again for bringing actual numbers to the table. It is a breath of fresh air.

 

[jeremydunworth]

@jeremydunworth, I want to be sure I didn't mis-speak: my "thank you" in the last post was 100% genuine, no sarcasm intended. I sincerely appreciate you taking the time to highlight actual data.

Your points are valid. The Ioniq 5 situation is a perfect example of how subsidies and margins get played by the manufacturers—when the federal money dried up, Hyundai magically found the room to cut prices to stay competitive, ultimately bringing your negotiated MSRP down to around $46,000 (still expensive for what it is, but not the point). And your breakdown of the Rivian R2 pricing, landing between $48,500 and $58,000, perfectly highlights the exact window of affordability that I am wishing Scout would target. It proves that capable, accessible EVs are possible without immediately hitting Cybertruck prices over $100k (and, to clarify, no, I am not comparing to the R2 — just the price point).

As you pointed out, we ultimately just want Scout Motors to be successful. I simply want them to be accessible to a broader, working-class market, rather than strictly chasing luxury margins from day one.

Thanks again for bringing actual numbers to the table. It is a breath of fresh air.

Thank you for your sincere response and I did not misunderstand your post that I responded to. I was a bit wound up when I decided to reply last night and so I am the one who perhaps owes an apology for being unnecessarily argumentative.

And still I am tempted to explain that there is a lot of arguing in this thread and so I thought if I am going to engage, which seemed to me to be of questionable value, I should do it in a way that both gets the right kind of attention and allows me to disappear quickly if my decision to post was ill considered. So I guess I accomplished my goal.

I have a lot more thoughts about the pickle that Scout Motors is in. However, SM is not paying me to advise on their business strategy and this other company is paying me and I need to start my workday. If I remember my thoughts about the pros and cons of being a subsidiary of VW (reference: https://www.bbc.com/news/business-34324772) and the challenges of finding a successful value proposition in a K shaped economy (https://www.usbank.com/corporate-and-commercial-banking/insights/economy/macro/k-shaped-economy.html) I may write up a longer post. For now, I am leaving breadcrumbs mainly to remind myself of my thoughts this morning.

I hope you and all the other participants in this discussion, even the Tesla drivers , have a great day. Looks like it is going to be beautiful one outside my window this morning.

 

[jeremydunworth]

It feels like there is always an article from theverge.com. Probably my best decision as far media to subscribe to.

Rivian makes the iconic American car — but that may not be enough

Hit by an icy EV slump and a literal tornado, Rivian bets it all on the R2.

www.theverge.com

There is definitely some selective interpretation of the recent past in EVs in this article that I don't agree with, so although it must have been shared somewhere on this forum already, this article is also worth remembering. I am in the camp of, I ain't drivin' no spaceship unless I am actually going to space.

When Did Cars Become Spaceships?

Scout Motors CEO Scott Keogh writes in praise of retro car design, arguing too much technology in our vehicles is making us feel disconnected.

www.rollingstone.com

Also, Rivian is most definitely NOT the "Patagonia of Pickups"

Edit, worth adding this link, even though it is USNWR:

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/rankings/electric-vehicles

Edit #2: another link worth adding regarding Rivian

Rivian factory workers are reportedly getting seriously injured on the job - Engadget

EV maker Rivian's factory in Normal, Illinois, appears to have many safety violations. Some workers have reportedly been seriously injured.

www.engadget.com

If I am going to give unsolicited advice to SM, I'm going to give this one also. Take care of your workers. Was talking to someone whose relative works on the line at a Tesla plant and it sounded like an absolutely terrible situation. They are just hoping the relative can tough it out until retirement in a few years and not suffer more injuries.

 

[eunichron]

Furthermore, the mass-market audience that Scout is targeting...

I think you're making the wrong assumption here.

Scout's production facility is reported to cap out around 200,000 vehicles per year. Ford sells nearly 1 million F-Series trucks every year. Toyota sells north of 250,000 Tacomas and 150,000 Tundras every year. GM sells over 500,000 Silverados and over 300,000 Sierras every year.

That's just trucks. That's not counting Expeditions, Suburbans/Yukons, and Sequoias.

I think Scout is very aware that they are the niche brand here with a comparatively very small customer base, and that nostalgia is only going to carry them so far. They have a lot to prove before they can even begin to think about cracking the mass-market.

 

[jeremydunworth]

I think this thread has drifted enough that can I list a feature that is critically important to Scout Motors regardless of price point. Accurate range estimation. In other words, don't be like Tesla

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/

Tested: Why Teslas Show Unrealistic Range Estimates Compared with Other EVs

In C/D testing, we found that Tesla's range display indicator doesn't adjust to account for driving conditions in the same way that other EVs' distance-to-empty estimates do.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[04Ram2500Hemi]

Jeep recently allowed folks to build their own fully EV Jeep Recon. It didn’t take long to get north of $75,000. I’m hopping Scout can avoid this!

https://www.jeep.com/bmo.recon.html...PL4,T7,ELD,DCC,Z1F,TKH,WBB,A5,SDJ,UBW,GWH,23E

 

[cyure]

Jeep recently allowed folks to build their own fully EV Jeep Recon. It didn’t take long to get north of $75,000. I’m hopping Scout can avoid this!

https://www.jeep.com/bmo.recon.html...PL4,T7,ELD,DCC,Z1F,TKH,WBB,A5,SDJ,UBW,GWH,23E


View attachment 16876View attachment 16877View attachment 16878View attachment 16879View attachment 16880

I’m sorry that price and only 220 miles of range is nuts.

 

[04Ram2500Hemi]

I’m sorry that price and only 220 miles of range is nuts.

220 miles of range- I guess it’s another “Jeep Thing” I don’t understand.

 

[tomgillotti]

220 miles of range- I guess it’s another “Jeep Thing” I don’t understand.

I feel like Jeep lost the plot a long time ago...

 

[jeremydunworth]

I feel like Jeep lost the plot a long time ago...

I say about 1987, but maybe they were lost even before then. I didn't get my license until 1990, 1991, whatever it took I guess, I've forgotten the details.

Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/07/03/lee-iacocca-achievements-saving-chrysler-buying-jeep-minivans.html

"He set his sights on American Motors, an automaker that was partially owned by Renault and struggling to stay relevant. What did Iacocca see in American Motors that was worth spending $1.5 Billion? Jeep.

“Lee was an intelligent risk-taker,” said Lutz. “Look at the decision to buy American Motors. If we had not done that deal, Chrysler never would have acquired the Jeep brand, which would go on to become a big part of Chrysler’s success.”"