Bi-directional Charging / Home Power Backup

[drhoden]

One of the biggest things I'm looking at in the total utility delivered from an EV Pickup is its ability to compliment my whole-home security plan; power being the most important.

I really hope this truck has 2 things:

1. Auto Bi-Directional kick-in (with safety checks).
2. On-board generator, either for range extending or destination self-recharging.

I would love to see this vehicle as my own portable powerhouse, and oh yeah, it also seats 6 ( I definitely want seating for 6).

 

[Shinji310]

One of the biggest things I'm looking at in the total utility delivered from an EV Pickup is its ability to compliment my whole-home security plan; power being the most important.

I really hope this truck has 2 things:

1. Auto Bi-Directional kick-in (with safety checks).
2. On-board generator, either for range extending or destination self-recharging.

I would love to see this vehicle as my own portable powerhouse, and oh yeah, it also seats 6 ( I definitely want seating for 6).

I have been baffled by the fact that many EVs are not offering a way to power a house. EVs is a massive power bank. I do not understand why they don't make it available to drive a home. I live in an area where utility service is not as reliable as I want. It would be really really cool to be able to use Scout vehicle as a back up. For me, it will seal the deal.

 

[falcatum]

Offer a 240 30A L14-30R or better yet a 50A 14-50R for the Traveler SUV to allow connection to a home or camper.

 

[San Diego]

Bi-directional charging is a mandatory for me. Direct from Scout (silly not to be front and center on their website): The Scout Terra will indeed support bi-directional charging. This capability is included in the design of all Scout vehicles, which encompasses the Scout Terra model. These vehicles are equipped with an 800-volt architecture and have up to 350 kilowatt charging capability, which facilitates the bi-directional charging feature

 

[Chris27]

Will this bidirectional charger be available via the scout EV charger that we saw on demo? What features can we expect via this charger and the app for bidirectional options?

Speaking on the subject of Harvester, will there be a safety feature built in to NOT run the generator when parked in an enclosed garage? For example, if I park my Scout in the garage and hook it up to run bidirectional to power my house, cannot be locked down to run off only the battery and not kick the generator on to charge the battery? Inversely, if I park outside and hook up, cannot I select to run the harvester at a certain percentage to act as a ‘manual generator’ to power my house?

I’m looking into a home backup battery in place of a full Generac system. I’d like the option to run critical appliances via the battery as a stand alone if we aren’t home. If we are home, we can supplement via a ‘manual generator’ plug in via a gateway or run off the EV. When we are ready, we can add solar to the mix….when all these ideas are paid off lol.

 

[shutthefrontdoor]

Having a bi-directional charger at launch would be a bonus as you wouldn't have to purchase something afterwards and try to sell your existing one. At their 2024 Investor Day, Rivian said they will have one and that all R1T/R1S are capable of up to 24 kW of bidirectional charging using a special wall charger. They've been mum on the topic ever since.

Though I could see where some would want to use it daily, charging their vehicle at night and powering their home during the day and perhaps that gives these companies pause in respect to their battery warranty.

A SSB would definitely help in that regard though. Would be my ideal setup to have both a SSB and Bi-Directional V2H through the vehicles L2 charger. That's a ways off though. With 2 charged BEVs in my garage, I'd probably have weeks of backup and you could even take one to the nearest SC that's powered up and recharge and keep alternating them as necessary, indefinitely. (albeit with no power for a minute when switching over unless you had 2 separate bi-directional chargers connected to your equipment). One can dream...

 

[Mousehunter]

The problem with V2L at the moment is few if any vehicles support it at a power to do much more than run a refrigerator or 2. 24kW would be nice - but having a backup generator on a rental, I am already aware specifically that 24kW can be limiting. Barely limiting, but if both AC's fire at the same time, we better not be cooking too. We have the AC's programed so that only one can run at a time if we are on backup (I personally thing that is a bit conservative, I think the real issue is the startup surge. But the installer apparently warned us, and did not apparently suggest we put in soft starts for the AC's.

If the Scout can put out a reasonable load - sure I would love to wire it in to my future homes backup solution. Honestly, I don't know how much it would actually help - if I have even a moderate amount of house backup battery capacity. Batteries will deplete, and ultimately it is up to a generator to provide the power. Batteries can only help the generators run at better efficiency - and stretch the time between service intervals. Right now our rentals backup generator is down - Beryl took it over its service interval and it has coded. Since the Houston area had 2 major outages this year, and since the code is a warranty issue rather than a simple service one - we are on the back burner of a LOT of service calls.

FWIW, we have had the backup generator for 3 years, I think this will be our 3rd or 4th service interval. Our electrical service is terrible there.

 

[dleepnw]

Its typically not the vehicle thats the limiting factor, its the extra equipment that needs to be installed at home. Ford has their version the Charge Station Pro. No other manufacturer has come up with one that they are selling (afaik). I know Enphase is one company trying to produce their 3rd party version. Rivian has stated for years that all their R1 vehicles have the hardware already in each vehicle to support V2L. They just haven't come up with the equipment for the home.

It'll likely be the same story for Scout. The vehicle will probably have the capability to do V2L (or at least it should if they haven't planned it). They will either need to manufacture the home unit or partner with a 3rd party vendor. Either way, I hope they plan for this as any BEV with giant batteries are a no brainer for home power backup.

 

[bsddrake]

Will this bidirectional charger be available via the scout EV charger that we saw on demo? What features can we expect via this charger and the app for bidirectional options?

Speaking on the subject of Harvester, will there be a safety feature built in to NOT run the generator when parked in an enclosed garage? For example, if I park my Scout in the garage and hook it up to run bidirectional to power my house, cannot be locked down to run off only the battery and not kick the generator on to charge the battery? Inversely, if I park outside and hook up, cannot I select to run the harvester at a certain percentage to act as a ‘manual generator’ to power my house?

I’m looking into a home backup battery in place of a full Generac system. I’d like the option to run critical appliances via the battery as a stand alone if we aren’t home. If we are home, we can supplement via a ‘manual generator’ plug in via a gateway or run off the EV. When we are ready, we can add solar to the mix….when all these ideas are paid off lol.

This is an underrated comment.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Its typically not the vehicle thats the limiting factor, its the extra equipment that needs to be installed at home. Ford has their version the Charge Station Pro. No other manufacturer has come up with one that they are selling (afaik). I know Enphase is one company trying to produce their 3rd party version. Rivian has stated for years that all their R1 vehicles have the hardware already in each vehicle to support V2L. They just haven't come up with the equipment for the home.

It'll likely be the same story for Scout. The vehicle will probably have the capability to do V2L (or at least it should if they haven't planned it). They will either need to manufacture the home unit or partner with a 3rd party vendor. Either way, I hope they plan for this as any BEV with giant batteries are a no brainer for home power backup.

This is the major issue. It's not about whether the manufacturer wants to do it. The hardware necessary to do this is a $10k+ add-on. The engineering experience necessary to plan the system for each unique home is difficult to attain. The discussions with the utility are long and difficult. The communications between the vehicle, the EVSE, the inverter, and the grid are fraught.

Ford is the only US manufacturer who has really embraced this. Sunrun was their sub and failed dramatically. There are a lot of unhappy customers frustrated with the inability to get their expensive systems online. Some utilities have somewhat arbitrarily refused to allow the system to be connected to their grid.

I decided to just go with a 20kWh battery from a solar backup manufacturer instead of trying to connect the Lightning. The time and money required didn't seem to be worth the effort considering the amount of travel I do with the truck.

In the meantime, I have used the 9.6kW power supply built into the truck to power critical loads in the house the several times I've needed it. I've also sent the truck down to an in-law's house to provide emergency power. No special equipment needed.

None of these issues are insurmountable, but I would rather see Scout focus on their vehicles and not solving an industry-wide problem.

There is a V2X/V2G standard being developed. NEMA just announced their standards recommendations for permitting of these technologies. Hopefully things will become better standardized by the time Scout releases their vehicles.

 

[dreamweaver]

This is the major issue. It's not about whether the manufacturer wants to do it. The hardware necessary to do this is a $10k+ add-on. The engineering experience necessary to plan the system for each unique home is difficult to attain. The discussions with the utility are long and difficult. The communications between the vehicle, the EVSE, the inverter, and the grid are fraught.

Ford is the only US manufacturer who has really embraced this. Sunrun was their sub and failed dramatically. There are a lot of unhappy customers frustrated with the inability to get their expensive systems online. Some utilities have somewhat arbitrarily refused to allow the system to be connected to their grid.

I decided to just go with a 20kWh battery from a solar backup manufacturer instead of trying to connect the Lightning. The time and money required didn't seem to be worth the effort considering the amount of travel I do with the truck.

In the meantime, I have used the 9.6kW power supply built into the truck to power critical loads in the house the several times I've needed it. I've also sent the truck down to an in-law's house to provide emergency power. No special equipment needed.

None of these issues are insurmountable, but I would rather see Scout focus on their vehicles and not solving an industry-wide problem.

There is a V2X/V2G standard being developed. NEMA just announced their standards recommendations for permitting of these technologies. Hopefully things will become better standardized but the time Scout releases their vehicles.

Several years ago, the solar power industry faced a similar adoption challenge when electric utilities restricted homeowners from connecting to their grids. However, over time, standardized regulations were established to facilitate such connections. Today, homes are increasingly powered by solar-powered battery backup systems integrated with the electric grid. This transformation is likely to extend to vehicles as well, although the timeline may take a minute.

 

[Cranky Canuck]

Its typically not the vehicle thats the limiting factor, its the extra equipment that needs to be installed at home. Ford has their version the Charge Station Pro. No other manufacturer has come up with one that they are selling (afaik). I know Enphase is one company trying to produce their 3rd party version. Rivian has stated for years that all their R1 vehicles have the hardware already in each vehicle to support V2L. They just haven't come up with the equipment for the home.

It'll likely be the same story for Scout. The vehicle will probably have the capability to do V2L (or at least it should if they haven't planned it). They will either need to manufacture the home unit or partner with a 3rd party vendor. Either way, I hope they plan for this as any BEV with giant batteries are a no brainer for home power backup.

Tesla also supports V2H with their Cybertruck so it's not just Ford but yeah, what you said is correct.

The main issue seems to be that there is no agreed upon industry standard on how to do it. Ford has their own proprietary V2H solution and so does Tesla (and Nissan but only in Japan although I've heard that some have managed to import the equipment and get it working but I digress...).

Until there is an industry standard that allows any make of car to plug in to any make of V2H equipment I don't see it really being something that automakers will be keen on doing. The technology exists but as many have said it's fairly expensive.

V2L is much easier because it's not difficult to provide a couple of standard 120V and 240V outlets on the vehicle. The Scout demo vehicles have already shown that off. V2H is a whole other ballgame, and V2G would be even more difficult to do since every utility would have their own unique requirements.

 

[dreamweaver]

One of the biggest things I'm looking at in the total utility delivered from an EV Pickup is its ability to compliment my whole-home security plan; power being the most important.

I really hope this truck has 2 things:

1. Auto Bi-Directional kick-in (with safety checks).
2. On-board generator, either for range extending or destination self-recharging.

I would love to see this vehicle as my own portable powerhouse, and oh yeah, it also seats 6 ( I definitely want seating for 6).

Welcome to the community.

 

[BeerParty]

One of the biggest things I'm looking at in the total utility delivered from an EV Pickup is its ability to compliment my whole-home security plan; power being the most important.

I really hope this truck has 2 things:

1. Auto Bi-Directional kick-in (with safety checks).
2. On-board generator, either for range extending or destination self-recharging.

I would love to see this vehicle as my own portable powerhouse, and oh yeah, it also seats 6 ( I definitely want seating for 6).

To answer your second request - this has already been covered extensively by Scout and the community. Go to their main site or search this forum for "Harvester" or "EREV".

To answer your first request - if you need "auto kick-in" for your power backup solution, I suggest looking at the technology that already exists for home battery backup. You would not want to rely on a vehicle that may not be attached to your house to provide automatic backup power in case of a power outage. You will want a dedicated system with a battery in the house for that. That will be cheaper and more effective than a bi-directional charger for an EV.

One advantage to having an EV that can provide power (commonly referred to a V2L - Vehicle to Load), or any vehicle or generator that can provide power, in this situation is that the home backup system can use a small battery. In an extended outage you can use the external power source to replenish the battery that is powering the house.

For example, in another forum I read, a member explained his backup power plan like this:

The house uses a EcoFlow Delta Pro Ultra with a Smart Home Panel to provide auto-switchover battery backup power in cases of a power outage. But instead of buying extra EcoFlow batteries to provide extended backup power, he plans to connect the EV to the EcoFlow using the V2L. This means he is using the batteries in the vehicle as additional power storage for the system. This solution has multiple benefits:

1. The system is cheaper than the existing solutions for bi-directional EV charging that exist today.
2. The system provides auto-failover even if the vehicle is not connected to the house.
3. The vehicle can be disconnected without interrupting power to the house. So if it is an extended outage and the vehicle's power gets low, you can unplug it, drive to a recharging location to recharge the batteries, and then return to the house and plug back in.