Battery used

[cyure]

I'll be very disappointed if you are right. I really liked the Scout concept. If its not 2nd gen battery pack I will not buy it. First gen batteries are obsolete technology. Upgrading the battery packs after purchasing the vehicle is way too expensive, not a casual investment like wheels or headlights. The 2nd gen packs will have the energy density to support heavier off-road capable vehicles. Other brands will come out with stronger SUVs using these batteries soon enough.

Everyone has to do what they are comfortable with. If you are more comfortable waiting for a different battery chemistry, no harm/no foul.

There’s lots and lots of battery discussion on here. Lots of reasoning as to why SM is proceeding as they are.

As I always say, I just hope everyone gets what they want.

 

[J Alynn]

I'll be very disappointed if you are right. I really liked the Scout concept. If its not 2nd gen battery pack I will not buy it. First gen batteries are obsolete technology. Upgrading the battery packs after purchasing the vehicle is way too expensive, not a casual investment like wheels or headlights. The 2nd gen packs will have the energy density to support heavier off-road capable vehicles. Other brands will come out with stronger SUVs using these batteries soon enough.

I think their are many that would agree with this but at launch they have to go with tried or true or they risk a very quick crash and burn potential

 

[apex96]

I'll be very disappointed if you are right. I really liked the Scout concept. If its not 2nd gen battery pack I will not buy it. First gen batteries are obsolete technology. Upgrading the battery packs after purchasing the vehicle is way too expensive, not a casual investment like wheels or headlights. The 2nd gen packs will have the energy density to support heavier off-road capable vehicles. Other brands will come out with stronger SUVs using these batteries soon enough.

While I understand you may be frustrated. Coming on a forum as a new member and then demanding such technologies be used because you feel they're the next big thing is not productive. This forum has a search function, searching for "battery" would have provided you with a load of information, some speculative, and some directly from Scout on the chemistry they intend to launch with.

Sodium batteries are less energy dense than NMC, so you would need a larger battery to store the same amount of energy. Sodium batteries are likely to be cheaper to manufacture though. This leaves automakers with a size, weight, range and cost problem to solve. On full-size vehicles the packaging and energy density of current NMC chemistries allows for longer driving ranges with a smaller footprint that is worth the cost tradeoff.

 

[Mousehunter]

Sodium batteries may become cheaper to manufacture - their material prices are cheaper. But it will also require them to be manufactured at scale, which has not happened yet.

 

[strider]

I'll be very disappointed if you are right. I really liked the Scout concept. If its not 2nd gen battery pack I will not buy it. First gen batteries are obsolete technology. Upgrading the battery packs after purchasing the vehicle is way too expensive, not a casual investment like wheels or headlights. The 2nd gen packs will have the energy density to support heavier off-road capable vehicles. Other brands will come out with stronger SUVs using these batteries soon enough.

If that is your position then you're not going to be buying any battery-electric vehicle for many years...... I strongly encourage you to come onto the site softly and do some reading and research before you spout nonsense/internet clickbait.

Sodium batteries will be awesome for stationary storage but they are heavier for the same amount of storage compared to NMC which decreases range - EVs are already heavy. They will not be used in road-going vehicles.

Aluminum ion is vaporware at this point so not under consideration.

Scout has one chance to enter the market with a reliable vehicle that hits their cost targets. Experimental batteries are much more expensive per kWh than tried and true LFP and NMC that have had decades of engineering efficiencies applied. If the batteries glitch and people have a lot of problems with the vehicle the company will fail, both from the warranty costs and the reputation loss.

Using tried and true LFP and NMC is the right call for a new manufacturer.

I have been driving EVs since 2010. No one "upgrades" their battery pack in the same way that no one upgrades the engine in their car (yes there are enthusiasts who do both as a hobby but they are the exception that proves the rule). If you need the capabilities of a newer model then you buy a new vehicle. I can also promise you that it will be many years before these experimental batteries are on production vehicles. You will be ready to replace your Scout by the time they are real.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

There’s no auto brand that sells in the US that will have full solid state batteries any time in the next five years, at best. Similarly, no brand will have sodium batteries. China is a decade or more ahead of the US, and it's getting further ahead as US research funding disappears and tarrifs interfere with the market. Being disappointed in a new brand for not buying the hype of a few misleading companies like Donut Labs is a great way to ensure unhappiness.

 

[THil08]

Welcome to the forum. Batteries (from SM POV) will be packaged to adapt as tech changes but at this time it’s pretty much a done deal to be today’s battery tech. They are already negotiating as close as we are so perhaps an early gen two will happen for a battery change from factory but initial run is already determined. Lots to read about it if you check out the search button and try searching battery-should give you lots of reading material

Aren't they using Hyundai's BMS and Packs? I thought i read it somewhere

 

[apex96]

Aren't they using Hyundai's BMS and Packs? I thought i read it somewhere

I believe it’s all speculative at this point, it’s not been confirmed. Hyundai is building a battery assembly plant nearby but that may just be a happy coincidence.

 

[THil08]

I believe it’s all speculative at this point, it’s not been confirmed. Hyundai is building a battery assembly plant nearby but that may just be a happy coincidence.

Hyundai is making the BMS(possibly), and Power Co is making the cells(definite).

 

[speedrye]

Hyundai is making the BMS(possibly), and Power Co is making the cells(definite).

So Hyundai's Mobis is building their production facility in Blythewood and building the batteries, but using PowerCo's cells in those batteries?? Why would they do that?

 

[THil08]

So Hyundai's Mobis is building their production facility in Blythewood and building the batteries, but using PowerCo's cells in those batteries?? Why would they do that?

No scout is building the packs at the supplier building.

Power co is supplying the cells. And Hyundai I believe is making the bms for scout. Then scout will be assembling them.

 

[maynard]

No scout is building the packs at the supplier building.

Power co is supplying the cells. And Hyundai I believe is making the bms for scout. Then scout will be assembling them.

Did SM confirm all this?
I must have missed it…

 

[Mousehunter]

Assembling cells and putting on a BMS is not super high tech. Building cells economically is realistically where the bleeding edge is. BMS is probably a commodity at this point, although picking the correct one is still probably fairly important. I don't mind Scout taking a conservative approach, the bleeding edge is not a safe place to be.

 

[apex96]

Did SM confirm all this?
I must have missed it…

To my knowledge, no, this has not been confirmed. If it turns out to be true that’s fine but I have yet to see any official confirmation that Hyundai is involved and that the cells will be coming from PowerCo.

There’s been a lot of speculation on the PowerCo involvement since the VAG has a stake in the company, but even then that’s not always a sure bet that the company gets utilized for all projects.

 

[J Alynn]

To my knowledge, no, this has not been confirmed. If it turns out to be true that’s fine but I have yet to see any official confirmation that Hyundai is involved and that the cells will be coming from PowerCo.

There’s been a lot of speculation on the PowerCo involvement since the VAG has a stake in the company, but even then that’s not always a sure bet that the company gets utilized for all projects.

With the fire sale VW is in they may ultimately pull out of that as well but Powerco still makes the most logical sense. I agree with you but sourcing “internally” makes more sense that working with a competitor as Hyundai seems to be committed to EV vehicle line up

 

[speedrye]

To my knowledge, no, this has not been confirmed. If it turns out to be true that’s fine but I have yet to see any official confirmation that Hyundai is involved and that the cells will be coming from PowerCo.

There’s been a lot of speculation on the PowerCo involvement since the VAG has a stake in the company, but even then that’s not always a sure bet that the company gets utilized for all projects.

Scott Keogh had mentioned that PowerCo would be used for the cells, but Scout legal quickly corrected that to mention that no contract was yet in place.
Hyundai Mobis is currently hiring for their battery production manager positions in Blythewood, and with previous news/rumors that Mobis would be providing BMS and battery assembly for Scout in SC, I have to assume those are one and the same as I generally don't believe in remote coincidences. Scout is also housing battery production on-site in the supplier park per their news/info releases, so I assume that's where Mobis will be working.
Connecting all of those dots, I'm assuming PowerCo is supplying the cells from their Canadian factory and shipping them to Blythewood where Mobis will be building and installing the BMS and batteries into the Scout. Now whether this applies to both the BEV and EREV models, or only one or the other remains to be seen since we're looking at different battery chemistries. Another assumption, but it'd make sense for PowerCo to produce both at their gigafactory since they're making a Unified Cell, flexible for both chemistries.

 

[apex96]

Scott Keogh had mentioned that PowerCo would be used for the cells, but Scout legal quickly corrected that to mention that no contract was yet in place.
Hyundai Mobis is currently hiring for their battery production manager positions in Blythewood, and with previous news/rumors that Mobis would be providing BMS and battery assembly for Scout in SC, I have to assume those are one and the same as I generally don't believe in remote coincidences. Scout is also housing battery production on-site in the supplier park per their news/info releases, so I assume that's where Mobis will be working.
Connecting all of those dots, I'm assuming PowerCo is supplying the cells from their Canadian factory and shipping them to Blythewood where Mobis will be building and installing the BMS and batteries into the Scout. Now whether this applies to both the BEV and EREV models, or only one or the other remains to be seen since we're looking at different battery chemistries. Another assumption, but it'd make sense for PowerCo to produce both at their gigafactory since they're making a Unified Cell, flexible for both chemistries.

Until contracts are confirmed it’s still speculative. And with relations between the US and Canada becoming increasingly frosty, there may yet be another pivot. You bring up another good point with the different battery chemistries as well. Scout may have separate supplies for the cells and the BMS for the different chemistries. None of this information has been provided publicly yet. It may very well be locked in and just not disclosed.

 

[J Alynn]

Scott Keogh had mentioned that PowerCo would be used for the cells, but Scout legal quickly corrected that to mention that no contract was yet in place.
Hyundai Mobis is currently hiring for their battery production manager positions in Blythewood, and with previous news/rumors that Mobis would be providing BMS and battery assembly for Scout in SC, I have to assume those are one and the same as I generally don't believe in remote coincidences. Scout is also housing battery production on-site in the supplier park per their news/info releases, so I assume that's where Mobis will be working.
Connecting all of those dots, I'm assuming PowerCo is supplying the cells from their Canadian factory and shipping them to Blythewood where Mobis will be building and installing the BMS and batteries into the Scout. Now whether this applies to both the BEV and EREV models, or only one or the other remains to be seen since we're looking at different battery chemistries. Another assumption, but it'd make sense for PowerCo to produce both at their gigafactory since they're making a Unified Cell, flexible for both chemistries.

Is Canadian factory up and running now?

 

[speedrye]

Is Canadian piercing up and running now?

I don't think the factory is supposed to open until next year, but I have no idea if they're on schedule or not.

 

[THil08]

To my knowledge, no, this has not been confirmed. If it turns out to be true that’s fine but I have yet to see any official confirmation that Hyundai is involved and that the cells will be coming from PowerCo.

There’s been a lot of speculation on the PowerCo involvement since the VAG has a stake in the company, but even then that’s not always a sure bet that the company gets utilized for all projects.

Scout Motors to source batteries from VW Group’s PowerCo unit in Canada

CEO Scott Keogh said Scout Motors is ready to capitalize on shifting public and customer sentiment, as well as trade policy, in the U.S., driven by what companies are doing for America.

finance.yahoo.com