solid state battery option

[pleasant tree]

PowerCo has been working on SSB and it looks like it will be available around the end of 2026. They will not be in Giga production at that time, but small amounts of batteries will be available for a launch car. Why not make this an option based on a lottery system for those willing to pay more to have over 600 mile range, longer life cycle, much safer, cold weather ability and less weight.

 

[cyure]

PowerCo has been working on SSB and it looks like it will be available around the end of 2026. They will not be in Giga production at that time, but small amounts of batteries will be available for a launch car. Why not make this an option based on a lottery system for those willing to pay more to have over 600 mile range, longer life cycle, much safer, cold weather ability and less weight.

Even though the Scout won’t be available until 2027 they are engineering and testing now. I just don’t see how that works with all the work that needs to be done prior to launch.

 

[Cranky Canuck]

Sorry but solid state batteries have been coming "next year" for 20 years now. Don't hold your breath. They still haven't solved the issue where the solid electrolyte cracks and they haven't solved the issue of SSB's not working below 5 Celsius.

 

[OH1984]

Even though the Scout won’t be available until 2027 they are engineering and testing now. I just don’t see how that works with all the work that needs to be done prior to launch.

Yes multiple credible articles about a couple different companies offering Solid state by end of next year at scale.

Was wondering the same thing if it’ll be an option by 28 etc. the technology sounds promising if they can deliver. At any rate may lower cost of the present alternatives.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

The press releases are breathless about the technology, but the delivery of true solid-state cells for environmental testing hasn't begun. The claim that there are “batteries” available is…problematic. There will be at least a several-years-long test/fix/test/fix cycle before they integrate the cells into a full battery (and that will then go through a similar cycle).

The biggest recent announcement from Mercedes is based on a semi-solid state battery, not a solid-state battery and it’s still in the testing-fixing development cycle. Semi-solid state has been available for a while for various uses.

 

[J Alynn]

The other concern is paying extra probably means an extra $10K minimum as early adopters and probably a CYA tax on top from SM so when they have to fix them they don’t lose their shirts. I’d bet it would be $12-13k more. I can make a lot of 20 minute longer stops with that kind of money and use the savings to fly to the long distance destinations.

 

[strider]

Yeah, this would be a huge distraction for SM. Best to use standard battery tech so they can focus on everything else. Once they are established they can start experimenting with new battery tech.

As an aside, has SM talked about the battery at all? Format, Chemistry, etc?

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Yeah, this would be a huge distraction for SM. Best to use standard battery tech so they can focus on everything else. Once they are established they can start experimenting with new battery tech.

As an aside, has SM talked about the battery at all? Format, Chemistry, etc?

Standard options. NMC for the BEV and LFP for the Harvester.

https://insideevs.com/news/751664/scout-evs-harvester-erevs-lfp-nmc-batteries/

 

[AlanL]

Yeah, this would be a huge distraction for SM. Best to use standard battery tech so they can focus on everything else. Once they are established they can start experimenting with new battery tech.

As an aside, has SM talked about the battery at all? Format, Chemistry, etc?

Yes in the Motor Trend interview. BEV NMC chemistry 120 to 130 ish kWh, Harvester LFP chemistry 60 to 70 ish kWH.

 

[OH1984]

Yeah, this would be a huge distraction for SM. Best to use standard battery tech so they can focus on everything else. Once they are established they can start experimenting with new battery tech.

As an aside, has SM talked about the battery at all? Format, Chemistry, etc?

Considering they’re sourcing batteries from a company in Canada and engines from Mexico and not actually making either, not sure they would be distracted in building the scout by using solid state if other vendors already have them produced to use by 2028.

 

[R1TVT]

I heard recently that Rivian is moving to a full, US-production LG battery with cells that will be made in AZ. Currently the LG cells are produced in Korea and the batteries get assembled at the plant in Normal, IL.

 

[OH1984]

I heard recently that Rivian is moving to a full, US-production LG battery with cells that will be made in AZ. Currently the LG cells are produced in Korea and the batteries get assembled at the plant in Normal, IL.

This would be great, would be even better if SM made engines and batteries in the US for a complete made in America build. Maybe one day manufacturing can come back like that.

 

[dreamweaver]

This would be great, would be even better if SM made engines and batteries in the US for a complete made in America build. Maybe one day manufacturing can come back like that.

Unfortunately bringing manufacturing back using shuttered plants or starting a new doesn't happen overnight. It will take some time before we can truly say a product is "Made in America."

 

[OH1984]

Unfortunately bringing manufacturing back using shuttered plants or starting a new doesn't happen overnight. It will take some time before we can truly say a product is "Made in America."

Agreed, hopefully moving in this direction. Not only for national security but to give Americans more job opportunities it would certainly be beneficial.

 

[Chaz26]

If solid state batteries are ready for production vehicles by the time Scout is released, the other thing is how reliable will the initial ones be? I wouldn't want Scout as a new car company to be the early adopter because if it turns out they had issues and battery pack failures then it could impact Scout's reputation as a whole. I'd rather have established companies like Mercedes etc. try them out on early cars first and once they are refined and confirmed reliable, then look at adding them in future model years.

 

[Cranky Canuck]

Considering they’re sourcing batteries from a company in Canada and engines from Mexico and not actually making either, not sure they would be distracted in building the scout by using solid state if other vendors already have them produced to use by 2028.

The Canadian factory is part of VW Group so they'll effectively be sourcing them from inside the 'family' as it were. The main factor is cost, sourcing cells from outside the VW family would likely cost more per cell than having them made in-house. AFAIK though Scout hasn't actually committed to a battery supplier yet so who knows.

As far as the "solid state" cells Mercedes and Stellantis are planning on using, those are from one supplier - Factorial Inc - and they aren't actually solid state, they're "quasi-solid state", essentially an iterative improvement on NMC cell technology. They certainly won't be cheap and for now there's only one company that makes them, Factorial. The cells that Scout Motors is looking to acquire are commodity products made by multiple different suppliers so there's a lot more competition and choice which equates to lower cost.

The engines are also a VW Group thing and are also likely to be cheaper because they're a VW parts bin thing.

 

[AlanL]

Considering they’re sourcing batteries from a company in Canada and engines from Mexico and not actually making either, not sure they would be distracted in building the scout by using solid state if other vendors already have them produced to use by 2028.

To use a new battery technology, physical size, etc. in 2028 they would need to start testing and qualifying them sometime in 2026. A huge distraction from initial deliveries. Not to mention production ready batteries would need to be available then. You don’t just take a vendor’s word on the component. Scout has to test in their vehicles, probably do adjustments for weight, reprogram control software. I used to work for Apple. They have a whole department dedicated to testing and qualifying components. Even mundane commodities like resistors and capacitors. Do they meet the nominal specs? How consistent is the production? How do they hold up under stress?

The ICE is a bit different, being a VW Group product. They can trust the VWG general qualification, do the specific testing for the Terra and Traveler.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I heard recently that Rivian is moving to a full, US-production LG battery with cells that will be made in AZ. Currently the LG cells are produced in Korea and the batteries get assembled at the plant in Normal, IL.

Perhaps. Construction of that plant is two years behind schedule at the moment. According to the original plans and agreement in 2022, production was supposed to have begun earlier this year. In mid 2024 construction was paused (it's restarted) and the timeline was pushed back to late 2026, at the earliest. The tariffs and uncertainty won't help.

 

[J Alynn]

Agreed, hopefully moving in this direction. Not only for national security but to give Americans more job opportunities it would certainly be beneficial.

So long as the quality comes along with it. Every American car my wife and I have had over past 28 years has been lemon lawed, or riddled with significant issues. It saddens me

 

[OH1984]

So long as the quality comes along with it. Every American car my wife and I have had over past 28 years has been lemon lawed, or riddled with significant issues. It saddens me

Yeah that’s no good I agree. Need quality