Where should the 240V outlet be?

[BeerParty]

There was just a thread in the suggestion box about a 240V outlet on the Traveler. That got me thinking about outlet placement, since it seems likely that the Terra will have an (optional?) 240V outlet available. I see three options for a 240V outlet:

1. On the inside of the truck bed (like existing pickup trucks).
2. On the outside body of the truck, probably next to the charging port.
3. On an adapter you plug into the charging port.

There are certainly other options. So, I am asking for input from the community: Where do you think a 240V outlet should be and why?

 

[Chaz26]

I would say in the truck bed similar to where most have them today would be my preference if they can only do one. If it's possible to also fit one (perhaps as an option) where the 5-15 outlets are in the charge port area (assuming it would fit there) then that would be great, either to have two 240v outlets or to pick where you'd like it in place of the truck bed.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I would put it under the charge port door.
I would replace the front-most 5-15R with an L14-30R.
I would also replace the 5-15Rs with 5-20Rs.
That would be one L14-30R and two 5-20Rs.
The relative size difference of the 5-20R and the L14-30R is minimal (less than 6 mm difference in diameter).
The 5-20R is about 33.8 mm across.
The L14-30R is about 39.6 mm in diameter.
The NACS port has a keepout zone of 80mm x 70 mm, so the L14-30R could easily fit within the rectangular zone nearby to the NACS port.

Having the L14-30R under the charge port door allows the same part to be installed in the Terra and the Traveler.
Having it outside allows use during inclement weather, such as during a storm that causes power to go out.
Using a L14-30 allows generator cables to be used without any modifications so the vehicle can be set up to power the house through a generator port for relatively low cost.
Adapters are cheap.

 

[Logan]

I would put it under the charge port door.
I would replace the front-most 5-15R with an L14-30R.
I would also replace the 5-15Rs with 5-20Rs.
That would be one L14-30R and two 5-20Rs.
The relative size difference of the 5-20R and the L14-30R is minimal (less than 6 mm difference in diameter).
The 5-20R is about 33.8 mm across.
The L14-30R is about 39.6 mm in diameter.
The NACS port is has a keepout zone of 80mm x 70 mm, so the L14-30R could easily fit within the rectangular zone nearby to the NACS port.

Having the L14-30R under the charge port door allows the same part to be installed in the Terra and the Traveler.
Having it outside allows use during inclement weather, such as during a storm that causes power to go out.
Using a L14-30 allows generator cables to be used without any modifications so the vehicle can be set up to power the house through a generator port for relatively low cost.
Adapters are cheap.

This.

5-20's, and 14-30R is what I'd use most (my home has a 14-30 transfer switch already there).

Alternatively, I'd be ok with adapters, and using the NACS port. But if that happened, even more ideal would be dual charging locations (a NACS port on each side of the vehicle). This would fix the "which side do I want to use for charging" issue, and also could open up other uses (could charge another EV natively), and could allow for you to charge, and pull power from the vehicle at the same time.

But the first option is likely easier.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

This.

5-20's, and 14-30R is what I'd use most (my home has a 14-30 transfer switch already there).

Alternatively, I'd be ok with adapters, and using the NACS port. But if that happened, even more ideal would be dual charging locations (a NACS port on each side of the vehicle). This would fix the "which side do I want to use for charging" issue, and also could open up other uses (could charge another EV natively), and could allow for you to charge, and pull power from the vehicle at the same time.

But the first option is likely easier.

I think the separate receptacle allows a number of options that get complicated if the 240V outlet is via a V2L adapter in the NACS port.

Also, the only V2L adapter for 240V that I’m aware of is quite bulky and runs $2500.

 

[strider]

I think the separate receptacle allows a number of options that get complicated if the 240V outlet is via a V2L adapter in the NACS port.

Also, the only V2L adapter for 240V that I’m aware of is quite bulky and runs $2500.

I agree that having the 14-30 next to the NACS port would be ideal but there may be aesthetic reasons to avoid that. I'm a Traveller reservation holder and so I'm talking my book there vs the Terra that's already been shown with a 240V plug inside the bed.

Can you elaborate on what gets complicated with the adapter? I use a CCS1 adapter with my Tesla and I would think that same form factor but with a 14-30 instead of the CCS plug would work perfectly.

As for cost, a quick search shows 120V V2L adapters for $100. The Tesla CCS adapter is $300. I can't think of why a factory-designed adapter should be bulky or cost that much? Maybe some kind of GFI needed?

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

I agree that having the 14-30 next to the NACS port would be ideal but there may be aesthetic reasons to avoid that. I'm a Traveller reservation holder and so I'm talking my book there vs the Terra that's already been shown with a 240V plug inside the bed.

Can you elaborate on what gets complicated with the adapter? I use a CCS1 adapter with my Tesla and I would think that same form factor but with a 14-30 instead of the CCS plug would work perfectly.

As for cost, a quick search shows 120V V2L adapters for $100. The Tesla CCS adapter is $300. I can't think of why a factory-designed adapter should be bulky or cost that much? Maybe some kind of GFI needed?

The complication comes in that you can’t charge and use the outlet at the same time if your V2L is through the charge port. Most of the time that’s not a concern, but there are times and reasons to want to do that. Mostly for me it’s using the outlet in the bed of the truck to run a refrigerator while on a road trip and not wanting to stop using the outlet while on a DCFC. That’s not 240V, but any V2L that uses the charge port would cause the same issue.

I’ve also used the truck to run 240V power in the shop when I didn’t want to run a long, bulky extension cord from the front of the shop where my 240V receptacle is located to the back of the shop where I happened to need the power. The truck was already plugged in, the power outlet was right there, and so it was easy to just use the truck as an extension cord.

Finally, a weird one—but still plausible—is to daisy chain charge a fellow traveler where there’s only one charger and maybe two vehicles that need to charge. It would technically be slower to do a daisy chain charge because of lower efficiencies on the 240V inverter and EVSE, but there can be non-efficiency reasons to do this. For example, if I’m caravanning with a friend who also has an EV and we stay at the same hotel, but there’s only one L2 charger available, it might be easier to do a daisy chain instead of try to get up at 03:00 to switch vehicles.

 

[BeerParty]

I think the separate receptacle allows a number of options that get complicated if the 240V outlet is via a V2L adapter in the NACS port.

Also, the only V2L adapter for 240V that I’m aware of is quite bulky and runs $2500.

I did not know there was a 240V V2L adapter available, though that cost does surprise me. Adding the 240V plug to the Ford Lightening is a $1,200 add-on, so double that seems excessive. Hopefully future competition brings the cost down.