solid state battery option

[pleasant tree]

PowerCo has been working on SSB and it looks like it will be available around the end of 2026. They will not be in Giga production at that time, but small amounts of batteries will be available for a launch car. Why not make this an option based on a lottery system for those willing to pay more to have over 600 mile range, longer life cycle, much safer, cold weather ability and less weight.

 

[Scoutsie]

If any manufacturer suddenly rolled out a full solid-state battery, I would be very skeptical of it. It ain’t happening. It would be cool, but it would be like $10,000 extra, would probably suck, and it would be riddled with problems as first-gen tech is wont to be. Basically I’m repeating what’s been said. This isn’t a good idea at this stage. This is a 5-10 years from now idea when it’s fully vetted and ready. As Jamie is wont to say, let’s see what happens. There are also other chemistries that sound interesting.

 

[Murraypetera]

Volkswagen subsidiary PowerCo lands battery tech licensing deal

QuantumScape says its solid state battery technology can allow an EV to travel up to 500,000 kilometers (roughly 311,000 miles) without any noticeable loss of range.

www.automotivedive.com

Solid State Battery Technology | QuantumScape

QuantumScape’s innovative solid state battery technology brings us into a new era of energy storage with improved energy density, charging speeds and safety.

www.quantumscape.com

 

[J Alynn]

Volkswagen subsidiary PowerCo lands battery tech licensing deal

QuantumScape says its solid state battery technology can allow an EV to travel up to 500,000 kilometers (roughly 311,000 miles) without any noticeable loss of range.

www.automotivedive.com

Solid State Battery Technology | QuantumScape

QuantumScape’s innovative solid state battery technology brings us into a new era of energy storage with improved energy density, charging speeds and safety.

www.quantumscape.com

Yes. Lots of manufacturers are saying this but nobody has done it to scale yet and realistically it could be 5 years minimum until anyone proves it’s possible at scale. And there’s been a LOOOONG discussion/debate already and the perceived consensus is unless SM suddenly decides to delay an additional year or two they are already negotiating for batteries based on the formulas they already announced so too late to hitch onto one of those trains. Not to mention a brand new legacy based vehicle can’t afford to gamble on brand new tech. And delaying a year or two will more than likely kill demand for the new Scouts. It will be almost 5 years in the making until SM produces the Scouts-another year or two will almost certainly be the kiss of death for majority of buyers. There are too many other EVs coming on line and people by nature aren’t that patient. Just my thoughts based on 2-1/2 years of being on this forum.

 

[J Alynn]

Wow-just saw that article is almost a year old too. Yeah-not convincing me

 

[Time2Roll]

When a stack of retail customers are bragging about the SSB with 100K+ miles I will start to be interested.
Plenty of the existing chemistries have had issues. Not getting stuck again.

 

[Chavannigans]

PowerCo and QuantumScape Announce Landmark Agreement to Industrialize Solid-State Batteries

Volkswagen Group’s battery company PowerCo and QuantumScape (NYSE: QS) today announced they have entered into a groundbreaking agreement to industrialize QuantumScape’s next-generation solid-state lithium-metal battery technology. Upon satisfactory technical progress and certain royalty...

www.volkswagen-group.com

VW announced some news about PowerCo and Quantumscape last week.

 

[pleasant tree]

PowerCo and QuantumScape Announce Landmark Agreement to Industrialize Solid-State Batteries

Volkswagen Group’s battery company PowerCo and QuantumScape (NYSE: QS) today announced they have entered into a groundbreaking agreement to industrialize QuantumScape’s next-generation solid-state lithium-metal battery technology. Upon satisfactory technical progress and certain royalty...

www.volkswagen-group.com

VW announced some news about PowerCo and Quantumscape last week.

This is 1 year old information. QS with PowerCo have been able to scale QSE-5 and will soon be announcing the Launch Car for first production of the battery. Too bad it is not Scout.

 

[Chavannigans]

This is 1 year old information. QS with PowerCo have been able to scale QSE-5 and will soon be announcing the Launch Car for first production of the battery. Too bad it is not Scout.

Oh shit haha. I thought it was 7/11/2025

You are right.

Got my jimmies rustled for nothing.

 

[Chavannigans]

It doesnt sounds like that claim is confirmed though.

 

[J Alynn]

I think we have one extreme of Scout fan that sits wishing the new Scouts were still using the 342 v-8 and the other end wishes for a small nuclear reactor in the frunk. The majority want a realistic range Scout and are willing to adapt to some form of EV. With that said, we all need to be patient and wait for announcements. This is too big of an investment to gamble coming out of the gate. SM has been at this for over 4 years-and PowerCo is connected to VWAG so I’m sure they have their fingers on the pulse. But to repeat, a start up this big can’t gamble with something that is just coming out of the gate. It sounds like the skateboards are designed with some flexibility so maybe a year from now there is a commitment based on proven testing and everyone wins-well, maybe not the V-8 crowd but that was never happening anyway. I’m sure @Jamie@ScoutMotors would love to educate us if he was in a position to do so-but it seems evident to me he is not. For now we should continue to speculate but more so-we should focus on the details that can still be modified to give the 80%’s the best off-road capable and road hugging daily driver vehicle possible.

 

[Chavannigans]

I think its clear that they arent ruling anything out. So its not up to anyone to say what risks they are willing to take.

 

[Jamie@ScoutMotors]

The language in the press release states that progress is being made, but there is zero mention of when they plan to go to volume production at a reasonable cost. Scout can adapt to various battery solutions if necessary in the future.

 

[Variable430]

PowerCo has been working on SSB and it looks like it will be available around the end of 2026. They will not be in Giga production at that time, but small amounts of batteries will be available for a launch car. Why not make this an option based on a lottery system for those willing to pay more to have over 600 mile range, longer life cycle, much safer, cold weather ability and less weight.

Unlikely to be available at this price point. Will start in high end Mercs, BMWs, and Porsches first.

 

[Mousehunter]

Timing. IF too many vehicles are planned to come out with next gen battery tech within 2 years of Scouts release, it could put decent pressure on initial sales numbers. Right now, solid state is still an unfulfilled promise. Various other tech and chemistries is also showing promise. Hard to say what will win the battery wars.

Sadly, it is hard to discern truth in internet reporting. There are tons of articles on semi-solid state, new electrolytes, new membranes, alternate chemistries - etc... Perhaps some of these will be able to be implemented easier than solid state-reducing or even completely beating solid state. But articles will take a word or 2 from real sources, and run a mile with it and say it will be in cars next year (can not count how may articles show up if you google Aluminum Ion battery and Tesla - or even 24M). Meanwhile in the real world, companies like Telsa have but years into things like dry process batteries, that are only possibly now rolling into production.

Range anxiety is the first and largest hurtle EV's have to face. But just behind that is simply battery tech anxiety. Saying magic batteries will be in production in 2 years makes it really hard for some people to pop down a significant portion of their annual wage on something that could be largely obsolete next model year. Let's face it - 350 miles is good enough now, but what if we could do 350 miles with 1000lb less batteries - or tow 300 miles rather than 100.

Car companies have NEVER offered obsolescence guarantees. Few companies have ever. So it is hard for me to say, that could really help out sales. I don't flip cars every 3 years - I tend to push it a LOT longer. Plus, what will be the resale value of an EV IF it's battery tech is 1/2 as effective as modern. Still, I could see myself dropping 10k on doubling my battery or reducing it's weight by 1/2 if the option would become available. Hell 20k might still be a bargain compared to the overnight resale loss if the 2028 Scout had a 600 mile battery rather than a 350 mile battery mile came with.

 

[J Alynn]

Timing. IF too many vehicles are planned to come out with next gen battery tech within 2 years of Scouts release, it could put decent pressure on initial sales numbers. Right now, solid state is still an unfulfilled promise. Various other tech and chemistries is also showing promise. Hard to say what will win the battery wars.

Sadly, it is hard to discern truth in internet reporting. There are tons of articles on semi-solid state, new electrolytes, new membranes, alternate chemistries - etc... Perhaps some of these will be able to be implemented easier than solid state-reducing or even completely beating solid state. But articles will take a word or 2 from real sources, and run a mile with it and say it will be in cars next year (can not count how may articles show up if you google Aluminum Ion battery and Tesla - or even 24M). Meanwhile in the real world, companies like Telsa have but years into things like dry process batteries, that are only possibly now rolling into production.

Range anxiety is the first and largest hurtle EV's have to face. But just behind that is simply battery tech anxiety. Saying magic batteries will be in production in 2 years makes it really hard for some people to pop down a significant portion of their annual wage on something that could be largely obsolete next model year. Let's face it - 350 miles is good enough now, but what if we could do 350 miles with 1000lb less batteries - or tow 300 miles rather than 100.

Car companies have NEVER offered obsolescence guarantees. Few companies have ever. So it is hard for me to say, that could really help out sales. I don't flip cars every 3 years - I tend to push it a LOT longer. Plus, what will be the resale value of an EV IF it's battery tech is 1/2 as effective as modern. Still, I could see myself dropping 10k on doubling my battery or reducing it's weight by 1/2 if the option would become available. Hell 20k might still be a bargain compared to the overnight resale loss if the 2028 Scout had a 600 mile battery rather than a 350 mile battery mile came with.

I will agree with your statements but in 6 years why is an off-road capable SUV that gets 350/500 miles obsolete? Perhaps not cutting edge but certainly not obsolete. Plenty of current ICE’s get less than that on a tank and people will drive them for the next 10,15,20 years. Less efficient-YES, but obsolete-I would argue NO to that. I presume you are implying it isn’t the latest and greatest-similar to the mindset of cell phones or tv tech. But this sentiment is also what creates fear in people, IMO. In 2035 perhaps Scouts will get 475/700 miles range but that just advancements in tech-.but it doesn’t make a Scout or any other new vehicle obsolete.

 

[Cranky Canuck]

Saying magic batteries will be in production in 2 years makes it really hard for some people to pop down a significant portion of their annual wage on something that could be largely obsolete next model year. Let's face it - 350 miles is good enough now, but what if we could do 350 miles with 1000lb less batteries - or tow 300 miles rather than 100.

That's literally what Toyota's marketing strategy has been in recent years. They've been hyping mythical solid state batteries for years but only offering hybrids because they know that most people aren't informed about the state of the battery tech they can be easily duped. They know that if they say "hey don't buy and EV (because we don't make any), we're working on magic future batteries so just buy a hybrid for now" people will buy into that nonsense and do exactly that. It has been working well for them so far.

The people who should be worried about buying obsolete vehicle tech are the ones buying cars with combustion engines in 2025!

 

[LonnyMacD]

I think its clear that they arent ruling anything out. So its not up to anyone to say what risks they are willing to take.

THAT’S what I was saying a few days ago about technology….

Let’s not rule anything out.

 

[Chavannigans]

That's literally what Toyota's marketing strategy has been in recent years. They've been hyping mythical solid state batteries for years but only offering hybrids because they know that most people aren't informed about the state of the battery tech they can be easily duped. They know that if they say "hey don't buy and EV (because we don't make any), we're working on magic future batteries so just buy a hybrid for now" people will buy into that nonsense and do exactly that. It has been working well for them so far.

The people who should be worried about buying obsolete vehicle tech are the ones buying cars with combustion engines in 2025!

They don’t even give you a choice on some models like the Sequoia.

All of them are hybrids that have mediocre fuel range. No plug in option.

It’s funny that they are really leaning into off-roading and overlanding thing, but are not making the vehicles more capable of doing those things. They are just making them look more rugged and capable, and folks are still lapping it up.

Im a Former VP and founder of the East Texas Toyota Offroaders Association so Im not a hater. Just really disappointed with their current lineup.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

They don’t even give you a choice on some models like the Sequoia.

All of them are hybrids that have mediocre fuel range. No plug in option.

It’s funny that they are really leaning into off-roading and overlanding thing, but are not making the vehicles more capable of doing those things. They are just making them look more rugged and capable, and folks are still lapping it up.

Im a Former VP and founder of the East Texas Toyota Offroaders Association so Im not a hater. Just really disappointed with their current lineup.

I had been a Toyota owner for 30+ years. Not for brand loyalty but because they make the vehicles that best met my needs. The Rivian, Mustang Mach-E, and Lightning announcements were un-answered by Toyota and I started shopping around. Ordered the Mustang but kept the Tacoma. When they announced the new 4-Runner and Tacoma without a BEV option, I was done. Hybrids are so 2000.

The local dealer recently contacted me asking if I was interested in coming back to look at their trucks. I told them not until they have Tacoma, 4-Runner, and Sienna BEVs with road-tripping ranges. I would consider any one of those.