Lexus LX/Tesla3 ==> Terra BEV

[Abrust]

Assuming no manufacturing defects, no hard racing every day behaviors, and no damage, the batteries with the chemistry that Scout will use will get 500,000-750,000 miles before they reach 70% of the original capacity.

Math:
NMC batteries get around 2000 full recharge cycles (100%-0%-100%; a partial recharge is pro-rated according to its charge amount). 350 miles/charge cycle * 2000 charge cycles = 700,000 miles.

LFP get about 5000 cycles. For the 150 mile range, that's, again, about 750,000 miles.

Note that the lifetime charge cycles is lab based and in harsher conditions than we see on the road. I have no concerns about our EV batteries. The vehicles will fail before the batteries do. And then I'll upcycle them into house energy storage.

Absolutely! I’m simply excited about upgrading to even greater mileage per charge so that the vehicle gets better as it passes through generations, much like ICE broncos and Land Cruisers from the 60’s have by upgrading engines, suspension systems, etc, but with the added extremes/benefits that come from BEV over ICE.

I’m hoping that a whole other market will emerge for repurposing old BEV batteries for, much like you say, local power storage for houses, etc.

 

[04Ram2500Hemi]

Depends on your social class really.

I pridefully drive Toyota and Lexus 4x4s with high miles.

If you have a business and can write that off, all the power to you.

But as a Toyota/Lexus owner I have never been preoccupied about miles.

They just work regardless of how many miles they had on them.

It came down to performance.


"Can my vehicle still do what I need it to do?"


"No? Okay then Scout it is."

I don’t think it’s a social class thing. I’ve just seen too many vehicles that hit 100,000 miles that become a maintenance concern. I need to be able to trust my vehicle. I also want to know my wife is safe when on the road. My daily driver right now is no doubt ridiculous, but it’s a purchase made with lot’s over overtime hours and a few bonuses. We don’t live a lavish lifestyle, and if I was smart I’d drive something more practical like a standard 1500 truck.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Depends on your social class really.

I pridefully drive Toyota and Lexus 4x4s with high miles.

If you have a business and can write that off, all the power to you.

But as a Toyota/Lexus owner I have never been preoccupied about miles.

They just work regardless of how many miles they had on them.

It came down to performance.


"Can my vehicle still do what I need it to do?"


"No? Okay then Scout it is."

I honestly have no idea what the mileage we had on our vehicles when I was a kid. We’d drive it until the JB Weld, duck tape, and baling wire stopped holding it together. At that point, we'd go buy another one from the junkyard, and build some Frankenstein’s monster out of the junkers we had. Usually the odometer had stopped working by the time we couldn’t keep the vehicle together.

 

[J Alynn]

At that age I’ll just let my kids drive me around. Sounds safer.

Safe bet for sure. But going all Mad Max in your 80’s in a Scout would be a good final chapter

 

[J Alynn]

Assuming no manufacturing defects, no hard racing every day behaviors, and no damage, the batteries with the chemistry that Scout will use will get 500,000-750,000 miles before they reach 70% of the original capacity.

Math:
NMC batteries get around 2000 full recharge cycles (100%-0%-100%; a partial recharge is pro-rated according to its charge amount). 350 miles/charge cycle * 2000 charge cycles = 700,000 miles.

LFP get about 5000 cycles. For the 150 mile range, that's, again, about 750,000 miles.

Note that the lifetime charge cycles is lab based and in harsher conditions than we see on the road. I have no concerns about our EV batteries. The vehicles will fail before the batteries do. And then I'll upcycle them into house energy storage.

Thanks for interjecting your expertise @SpaceEVDriver

 

[J Alynn]

Absolutely! I’m simply excited about upgrading to even greater mileage per charge so that the vehicle gets better as it passes through generations, much like ICE broncos and Land Cruisers from the 60’s have by upgrading engines, suspension systems, etc, but with the added extremes/benefits that come from BEV over ICE.

I’m hoping that a whole other market will emerge for repurposing old BEV batteries for, much like you say, local power storage for houses, etc.

Will be interesting to see-when SSB’s finally become available what will they and a battery swap cost versus what depreciation and trade in value will be to see if you aren’t just better trading in on a new vehicle. Someone in the near future will certainly be figuring this out.

 

[J Alynn]

I don’t think it’s a social class thing. I’ve just seen too many vehicles that hit 100,000 miles that become a maintenance concern. I need to be able to trust my vehicle. I also want to know my wife is safe when on the road. My daily driver right now is no doubt ridiculous, but it’s a purchase made with lot’s over overtime hours and a few bonuses. We don’t live a lavish lifestyle, and if I was smart I’d drive something more practical like a standard 1500 truck.

You make a very valid point and their is a lot of truth in what you say.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

As far as battery swap is concerned: We’ll need a Battery Management Subsystem that speaks to the new battery and to the old vehicle. That’s going to require something like: Standardization of BMS across the industry; Open hardware/firmware of the BMS from Scout; Some clever hackers; A lack of encrypted communications between modules in the Scouts. As other manufacturers are going toward encrypted module communications, it is becoming more and more difficult to hack into the systems…

If Scout wants their vehicles to be 80% user-serviceable, they may need to ensure their modules don’t communicate with encryption. But, there’s a can of worms in that decision too.

I don’t know what Scout will do, but there are a pile of problems that will need to be solved to enable battery swapping.

 

[cyure]

Safe bet for sure. But going all Mad Max in your 80’s in a Scout would be a good final chapter

Wouldn’t it though!

 

[cyure]

Thanks for interjecting your expertise @SpaceEVDriver

Yes thank you very much.

 

[cyure]

You make a very valid point and their is a lot of truth in what you say.

You just have to do what makes sense. If I didn’t had my lifetime warranty that I do it would be a different calculation. That’s why it was so difficult to find a car. It had to be something I loved so much that I was willing to give up that warranty.

 

[Abrust]

As far as battery swap is concerned: We’ll need a Battery Management Subsystem that speaks to the new battery and to the old vehicle. That’s going to require something like: Standardization of BMS across the industry; Open hardware/firmware of the BMS from Scout; Some clever hackers; A lack of encrypted communications between modules in the Scouts. As other manufacturers are going toward encrypted module communications, it is becoming more and more difficult to hack into the systems…

If Scout wants their vehicles to be 80% user-serviceable, they may need to ensure their modules don’t communicate with encryption. But, there’s a can of worms in that decision too.

I don’t know what Scout will do, but there are a pile of problems that will need to be solved to enable battery swapping.

Sounds to me like you’re saying a very lucrative market might be figuring out a universal BMS (either through partnership or clever work around) to enable battery upgrades, much like putting a small block 350 in a ‘58 Buick.

 

[SpaceEVDriver]

Sounds to me like you’re saying a very lucrative market might be figuring out a universal BMS (either through partnership or clever work around) to enable battery upgrades, much like putting a small block 350 in a ‘58 Buick.

Yes, if someone figures out how to build a translation module, then that could be super valuable.

 

[J Alynn]

Yes, if someone figures out how to build a translation module, then that could be super valuable.

It’s already sitting in my garage under a cover marked dehydrated manure compost. I was working on it while they had the prototypes in my garage last month. I’m looking for a few angel investors at $500K for 5% stake in my company-sorry no fancy dog and pony show like shark tank. And no bitcoin, all cash -$10’s and smaller.

 

[Logan]

My Wrangler is the first vehicle I have kept to over 100,000. It currently has 111,000 miles on it. I’m curious why the 200,000 figure. Is there some data that shows that over 200,000 it would need a new battery? Where’s @SpaceEVDriver when we need him.

Before this last 2 that I got new, I had only barely owned vehicles under 100k miles.

I bought my Jeep, and my Mazda with 98k, and 96k miles respectively .